Horcruxes: A Summary

by Travis Prinzi on December 21, 2005

It was requested by someone in a comment a few weeks ago that I lay out a summary of horcruxes thus far, and so here is my feeble attempt to do that. We’re addressing here the questions, What are the known horcruxes, and what are the possibilities for other horcruxes? Voldemort wanted to have his soul split into 7 pieces, so we’d expect 6 horcruxes in addition to the portion of his soul the resides in his own body (p. 503). As we go through this, I’ll add page numbers from Half-Blood Prince as an easy reference for you (I’m using the Scholastic publication for USA).

Let’s start with what we know for sure:
1. Tom Riddle’s diary. This is definitely a horcrux, and we know it has been destroyed (pp. 500-501).
2. Marvolo’s ring. Definitely a horcrux, and destroyed by Dumbledore.

Now, let’s move to objects that are very likely horcruxes:
3. Slytherin’s locket.
4. Hufflepuff’s cup.
Of both of these, Dumbledore said,

I would be prepared to bet - perhaps not my other hand - but a couple of fingers, that they became horcruxes three and four (p. 505).

Since Dumbledore is so certain, there is a very high likelihood that these two are horcruxes, especially with what we know of the journey to the cave to find the locket and the mystery of RAB. There may be some room for Dumbledore to be wrong about the cup, but it’s highly improbable.

That leaves us with two: Here’s where things get sticky. Dumbledore figures that since Voldemort desires objects with a powerful magical history for horcruxes, that he would have searched for relics of the other two houses: Ravenclaw and Gryffindor (p. 505). Dumbledore cannot say whether or not Voldemort ever found a Ravenclaw relic, but he is quite confident that “the only known relic of Gryffindor [the sword] remains safe” (p. 505). This does not, however, lead us to the conclusion that there is no Gryffindor relic about which Dumbledore does not know, for throughout the rest of the conversation, a Gryffindor horcrux remains a possibility (though a Ravenclaw horcrux is more probable). Let’s spend a few words on Dumbledore’s speculations, and then a little time on common speculations of readers.

Dumbledore’s Speculations

Dumbledore suspects Nagini as a horcrux. His theory goes this way: Since Voldemort saved horcrux creation for significant deaths, he planned to create his sixth after the murder of Harry, which failed. After he returned to power, he needed a sixth, and so he used the murder of Frank Bryce to create a horcrux from Nagini (p. 506). Given this speculation, Dumbledore’s theory of horcruxes is summarized by Harry in this way:

…the diary’s gone, the ring’s gone. The cup, the locket, and the snake are all intact, and you think there might be a Horcrux that was once Ravenclaw’s or Gryffindor’s? (p. 507)

Dumbledore calls this “an admirably succinct and accurate summary.” So if Dumbledore is correct, the last two horcruxes shape up this way:

5. Ravenclaw or Gryffindor Relic.
6. Nagini.

Other Speculations

Dumbledore has been wrong before, and even if his theory is correct, it leaves one horcrux (the Gryffindor or Ravenclaw one) a mystery to us. What are some other options out there in the world of Harry Potter fandom?

Perhaps the most controversial of theories is that in some way, either Harry or Harry’s scar is a horcrux, accidentally. We can go back and forth forever about whether accidental horcruxes are possible or whether Harry or his scar could be a horcrux at all. The bottom line is, we can’t know for sure. Absolute certainty on any theory would be unwise, because JKR is bound to surprise you. But an accidental horcrux creation in Harry or his scar might cause an interesting situation: If Dumbledore’s theory is correct, and Harry’s scar happens to be a horcrux, then there would have been 7 horcruxes created, not just six. Follow me here:

(1) Riddle’s diary, (2) the ring, (3) the locket, (4) the cup, (5) a Ravenclaw or Gryffindor relic, (6) Harry, accidentally and without Voldermort’s knowledge, and (7) Nagini. Of course, with the early destruction of the Riddle diary, there would still be no more than 7 at any given time. But the overall creation of 7 horcruxes and not 6 would throw Harry’s count off by one as he seeks to destroy them. One can imagine the intensity of a final duel between Harry and Voldemort. Harry approaches him, confident that he has destroyed every horcrux, and killing Voldemort will destroy him forever, only to have Voldemort reveal to Harry that he (Harry himself) is a horcrux.

We’re working through the possibilities of Harry as a horcrux in the comments section of my previous post, Is Harry a Horcrux? - join us if you’ve got theories about it!

From this point onward, everything concerning horcruxes is high speculation. The tiara in the Room of Requirement has been suggested by some. Others have posited the Sword of Gryffindor or the Sorting Hat, but these are nigh unto impossible. Dumbledore says the Sword is safe, and the Sorting Hat talks - and we know from the diary what happens when horcruxes come to life in any way. Fawkes has been suggested, but I find this more unlikely than all the rest. The feather from Fawkes in Voldemort’s wand, however…well, perhaps another time.

Feel free to include your ideas, theories, and speculations in the comments.

{ 318 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Sean McMahon 12.21.05 at 4:04 pm: There is an additional Gryffindor relic, although it is highly unlikely it is a horcrux: the sorting hat. It belonged to Godric, but was imbued with magic from all of the hogwarts founders. Just an intersting tidbit. (Book 4, during the sorting ceremony)
2 Travis Prinzi 12.21.05 at 4:08 pm: Good addition, Sean. I had forgotten to mention its status as a Gryffindor relic. Thanks!

Now get back to work =)
3 Sarah Izhilzha 12.21.05 at 5:10 pm: > the Sorting Hat talks - and we know from the diary what happens when horcruxes come to life in any way.
4 melody 12.23.05 at 1:17 pm: regarding the number of horcruxes… assuming harry is indeed a horcrux, which i suspect.. what if he IS the gryffindor relic? the last descendant or something? that would keep the number of horcruxes at 7.. including the one in voldermort himself. i don’t know. what do you think??
5 Travis Prinzi 12.23.05 at 2:10 pm: It’s possible, of course, that Harry is the “Gryffindor” horcrux, but it’s highly unlikely that LV would have KNOWN Harry was a horcrux until sometime in Book 5. So chronologically, it wouldn’t change the number of horcruxes, since he would have made Nagini a horcrux (with Frank Bryce’s murder) prior to his discovery that Harry was a horcrux.

I think it much more likely that LV had a Ravenclaw horcrux and not a Gryffindor when he went off to murder Harry.
6 Clay Spencer 12.24.05 at 7:11 pm: While reading this and the discussion on Harry being a Hocrux or not, a thought popped into my head.

That foul nave Dolores Umbridge completely vanished from the story of HBP. She seemed to be quite an evil character, as well. Suppose she is a servant of Voldemort, and while serving her time as Headmaster of Hogwarts, she allowed him to make the sword of Gryffindor (or the hat, for that matter) his final Hocrux? It would mean he made it recently after his return to power, but it is a possibility.
7 Travis Prinzi 12.25.05 at 11:19 am: Clay, a very interesting thought indeed. There is always the potential that Umbridge is working for LV, though my guess is that she’s meant to be a bit of a caricature of bad, self-serving educators and politicians.

If she is working for LV, however, I think two things would make me hesitate about her letting the Sword of Gryffindor become a horcrux:

1. If I recall correctly, when Umbridge attempted to get to Dumbledore’s office after he was ejected from the school, she was unable, and had to use her own office as the headmaster’s. So she wouldn’t have ever had access to the sword.

2. When Dumbledore said he knew that the only known Gryffindor relic was safe, my guess is (though I can’t be sure) that this means that he inspected it for horcruxes. After all, we do have that pensieve memory in which it looks like Tom Riddle did something with his wand before leaving the office, and I’m sure Dumbledore had noticed that and inspected the office for any evidence of foul play.

These objections aside, you still never know. I’ve tried to stay as open to any possibilities as I can, given how good JKR is at plot twists and surprises.

Thanks for your comments.
8 Derek Smith 12.29.05 at 6:33 pm: What about Tom Riddle’s trophy for services to the school when he got Hagrid expelled? It figured prominently in Chamber of Secrets (Ron belched slugs into it while he polished it). And it would certainly be significant to Voldemort.

Don’t forget that in Goblet of Fire, Priori Incantatem allowed us to see ALL the spells Voldemort performed since Harry’s parents’ deaths, and there isn’t an obvious horcrux among them. No representation of Harry or Nagini comes out of Voldemort’s wand, which would seem to indicate that Voldemort’s wand wasn’t used to turn either Harry or Nagini into a horcrux….Two things came out of Voldemort’s wand that we should consider, though: Wormtail’s silver hand and Frank Bryce’s walking stick. If Wormtail’s hand is a horcrux, Wormtail could repay his life debt to Harry by sacrificing himself (or just his hand). And maybe Frank’s walking stick remains in the Riddle house, booby-trapped and waiting to be discovered, just as the ring was left in the Gaunt house.
9 Travis Prinzi 12.30.05 at 11:34 am: Excellent thoughts, Derek. I’d want to add this curve ball: when Voldemort comes back in GoF, he tells his followers that all the spells that could have helped him “required the use of a wand,” which allows for the possibility of certain spells being cast without the requirement of a wand. Could a horcrux spell be just such a spell? We don’t know, of course, but it’s a possibility. In that case, we wouldn’t know whether or not Nagini is a horcrux based on Priori Incantatem.
10 Andros the Invincible 01.07.06 at 12:05 pm: You said that:
(1) Riddleâ€™s diary, (2) the ring, (3) the locket, (4) the cup, (5) a Ravenclaw or Gryffindor relic, (6) Harry, accidentally and without Voldermortâ€™s knowledge, and (7) Nagini

But I would like to correct you that only six horcruxes can exist, as the seventh part of Voldemort’s soul is in his own body, thus summing up the total parts of the soul to 7(the most powerful magical number, of course).
11 Travis Prinzi 01.07.06 at 5:03 pm: Right…but you’re not really “correcting” me. Re-read the post: the first paragraph explains that the piece of soul in Voldemort’s body is part 7. I don’t recall saying that only 6 horcruxes can exist, especially since I posit a potential theory of 7 + 1 (the 1 piece being in Voldemort’s body).
12 kayleigh 01.09.06 at 2:00 am: I would first of all like to say that I enjoyed sharing all of your theories on the page!!! very interesting, I have made a list based on my own theories for and against “Is Harry a horcrux?” to share with you.

For:
1) Harry did have an uncanny link and insight into Voldermorts mind and stronger feelings.

2) Dumbledore said himself that part of Voldemort’s power or Voldemort did transfer to harry the night the curse back fired, this is why he is a parsel mouth etc..

Against:
1) Voldemort suffers unbearable agony if he tries to enter harry, would the same thing happen to a fragmnet of his soul?

2) Unless harry is an accidental horcrux from the night his parents died, Voldemort has not had easy access to him so could not make him one.

3) Voldemort treasures his horcruxes with a “magpie like tendancy” he would want to keep it very safe and well gaurded, just like the locket in HBP.

4) I also think that Voldemort sad as it is would be repulsed by putting something as prescious as a fragment of his soul inside a half-blood and the boy who has been fortold to be his downfall.

In conclusion I personally do not think that harry is a horcrux,
I think that harry is the non-evil equivilant to voldemort in the sense that:

1) They both had no parents,
2) They both found out they were wizards when they were eleven.
3) Dumbledore even said they look alike in COS.
4) They are both half blood.

Dumbledore said in COS, that it is the choices a person makes that defines them, not where they come from.
I think that JKR has followed this rule and would have Harry choose to finish Voldemort in the most noble way possible, I also believe that at some point Voldemort will underestimate harry (Dumbledore mentions it as one of his biggest mistakes in HBP) I believe that will be the end of Voldemort, and wouldn’t it be handy if RAB had found other horcruxes and destroyed them also, how do you think Harry will find out who RAB is? no doubt Hermione will be some help! :0)
13 Travis Prinzi 01.09.06 at 8:54 am: Kayleigh, excellent thoughts! You’re correct - the entire idea of Harry as a horcrux rests on it being accidental, i.e., it happened that night at Godric’s Hollow, and Voldemort did not know about it until sometime during OotP.

The accidental horcrux theory explains numbers 2-4 in your “Against” summary. Number one could be explained in this way: If it is not the entirety of Harry, but Harry’s scar that is the horcrux, then Voldemort would still have been trying to possess a boy with a “pure heart” and would have been unable to.

Excellent connections between Harry and Voldemort - we literary nuts call that a doppleganger.

I also think you’re on to something by rooting your 7th book speculations in key statements by Dumbledore like the one in COS.

Nice observations.
14 cass 01.09.06 at 5:54 pm: Even if Harry went out to destroy all the horcruxes, and then went to kill Voldemort, couldn’t Voldemort have made more Horcruxes possibly… if he somehow found out like 2 of them were destroyed…. or something and then when Harry went to kill him ( thiniking all the horcruxes were destroyed) it wouldnt work or something.
Think about it. Plus, im pretty sure I know who R.A.B. is.
Thanks pals! Cassie

ps. Dont mind my friends… theyre actually pretty hilarious….. and i was just wondering…. are you ppl from England or the U.S.A. ???
15 Travis Prinzi 01.09.06 at 10:16 pm: Cass, it’s certainly possible that Voldemort could make more horcruxes, though I get the impression from HBP that he’s laying low and letting Death Eaters do most of the work right now, which means he’s probably not doing most of the murdering at the moment. It is plausible, of course.

So what’s you’re theory on R.A.B.?

I’m from the US, but I imagine some of our readers/commenters are from England (my statcounter stats show hits from Italy, England, Thailand, and others).
16 Cass 01.10.06 at 6:20 pm: Hey its Cassie.
I think R.A.B. is Sirius Blacks brother Regulus Black, because he was a L.V. supporter or whatever… but he might have like turned over to the ummmm…. not dark side.
Thanks Pals, Cassie*

P.S. Im from the U.S. too!
17 cass 01.11.06 at 9:06 pm: ummmm…… i saw the thing about Harry Potter and the OoP… i thought they already started filming why r they still looking for a luna?

plus r u ppl like teenagers or like some creepy old perverts tryin to find out stuff about kids? my friend wanted to know.
Cassie*
18 Travis Prinzi 01.12.06 at 8:00 am: Cass, since a large portion of HP lovers are adults, every Harry Potter site will include both younger and older readers.
19 Morganna 01.12.06 at 12:46 pm: Cass,

Chronologically, I’m what teenagers would call ‘old’. Mentally and spiritually, I’m as young as Hermione, as wise as Dumbledore (OK, maybe not *that* wise), and as childlike as Hagrid. Creepy and perverted - gosh, I hope not!
20 maca 01.15.06 at 12:46 pm: hi!
well i think i actully found out who R.A.B is… i have been looking at jk rowlings interviews and there is one in which she admits that regulus blacks complete name is Regulus Arturus Black = R.A.B!!
If he really is R.A.B i have been wandering why he became a death eater… i actually have me theories but im in a hurry, maybe some other day i will tell them…
21 Travis Prinzi 01.15.06 at 1:17 pm: maca, if you could send a link to the interview where Regulus’ middle name is mentioned, that would be really helpful!

Yes, do come back and share you theories with us.
22 Travis Prinzi 01.15.06 at 1:22 pm: After some quick research, it appears that there is some controversy over the “Arcturus” middle name, including its source. Some claim JKR said it, but no one seems to know for certain.

So if you could provide an actual interview, that would be great.
23 korg20000bc 01.16.06 at 1:31 am: Hello,
Is everyone assuming that the locket horcrux is actually destroyed? I know RAB said he/she intended to destroy it as soon as possible and that the process would probably kill them… But has it happened?

Matt
24 Travis Prinzi 01.17.06 at 8:54 am: Matt, I don’t think it’s safe to assume the locket is destroyed for certain, thought it certainly does look that way.
25 Mike 01.17.06 at 8:57 am: Has anyone thought that perhaps Dumbledore left part of his soul in one of his possesions, therefore not actually dying, but taking a lesser form? Perhaps the sword of gryffindor?
26 Travis Prinzi 01.17.06 at 9:02 am: Mike, some have speculated that Dumbledore created a horcrux. Many think that Fawkes is Dumbledore’s horcrux.

I think this theory is highly unlikely for two reasons:

1. Dumbledore hates the Dark Arts, and horcrux creation is most definitely a Dark Art.

2. Dumbledore is the character in the books who is teaching us to “die well,” so to speak. Voldemort’s great error is thinking that there is nothing worse than death. Dumbledore knows there are a lot of things worse than death, so I don’t think Dumbledore would ever create a horcrux. See my post on The Finality of Death for more.
27 maca 01.17.06 at 4:05 pm: matt,

As far as we know dumbledor is a good person and is uncapable to separate his soul in 2!!

i think that if regulus is rab and did not manage to destroy the locket then it probably is the locket that harry and the rest could not open while cleaning siriuses house… but im not sure…

oh and by the way i cant find the pag which i found jk rowling admiting regulus second name is arcturus… but i asked a friend which was with me and she said that the pag is not very trustworthy… and it was in spanish…
28 Korg20000bc 01.17.06 at 11:13 pm: I agree with you that Dumbledore would never take part in the creation of a horcrux and I never said he would.

But what does intrigue me is the headmasters/headmistresses paintings in Dumbledore’s office. One of the paintings says that the former headmasters/ headmistresses are sworn to assist the current school head. This seems a bit more than just normal paintings around the school. Dumbledore, it appears, confided in these paintings and they helped him to clarify his thoughts.

As a result Dumbledore, and his wisdom, will not be completely absent from the coming story .

Any thoughts?

Matt
29 Travis Prinzi 01.18.06 at 8:50 am: Matt, sorry if I misunderstood you.

I agree with you. We will hear from Dumbledore in some way through his headmaster painting in Book 7.
30 maca 01.20.06 at 5:04 pm: hey!

i have a question…

doesnt anyone find it wierd that dumbledor look so peaceful when he died?… after all it was kind of a shock… take cedric for example… he “looked” dead… dumbledor looked like he was sleeping…
31 Travis Prinzi 01.20.06 at 5:39 pm: maca, good observation. Remember, Dumbledore is the character in the series who is teaching us to “die well,” so to speak. Remember his reaction to Harry’s realization that Nicholas Flamel would die without the stone - “To the well-organized mind, death is the next great adventure.”

So we would expect him to be peaceful at his death (especially if the “stoppered death” theory is correct, and Dumbledore was on death’s doorstep throughout the whole book anyway).
32 maca 01.20.06 at 9:13 pm: yes, i agree… but does that mean cedric was bad?? i think there might be something behide it all… after all he was supposed to be shocked… unless he new he was going to die…
33 cass 01.21.06 at 2:10 am: Um……… I alwas thought Dumbledore would be able to talk in his painting. Thats All I got to say.

k thanks pals *CASSIE*

i dont know if Dumbledore was surprised about his death. i know this sounds shockiing or whatever, and i dont want to get shot for saying this or anything, but u think Dumbledore Malfoy and Snape like…. planned this stuff together?
” I trust Severus Snape” says Dumbledore….. maybe 4 a different reason, but um… i dont think Dumbledore is evil, just a thought. Please dont kill me. haha jk
34 Travis Prinzi 01.21.06 at 8:06 am: maca, no, I don’t think it means Cedric was evil. Cedric was taken entirely bt surprise (and he was also very young - not thinking about death anytime soon). Dumbledore was prepared to die and probably knew it was coming.

cass, I tend to think Dumbledore and Snape planned it, but not Malfoy. Malfoy really thought he was carrying out the Dark Lord’s orders, and he also really thought Snape was helping him. I think, in reality, Snape and Dumbledore both knew exactly what would happen in such a situation as occurred on the Astronomy Tower.
35 korg20000bc 01.22.06 at 4:07 am: Cass,
I also don’t think that Dumbledore planned it with Draco. I think that Dumbledore was genuinely trying to convince Malfoy that his actions were wrong and that he should come over to Dumbledore’s side. Also, I don’t think that Dumbledore would have been happy with the other, uncareful attempts on his life ie, the locket and the poisoned mead and the victoms of these being his students ie Katie and Ron.

Matt
36 jj 01.25.06 at 7:30 pm: I keep thinking that there are less Horcruxes than Dumbledore and Harry thought there were. Let’s say that Voldemort created 6 Horcruxes and had the 7th part of his soul in his body before going after Harry. Then when he tried to kill Harry and it backfired, didn’t he use one of his horcruxes to stay alive? If so that leaves only 5 horcruxes and the one in LV. Then Harry destoyed the diary and Dumbledore destroyed the ring, that leaves 3 horcruxes and the one in in LV instead of the 4 Harry thinks he is searching for. Also, it is mentioned that he may not have created all of his horcruxes before trying to kill Harry and that he may have used Nagini. How would he have done this if he was barely alive and did not have his powers. So maybe there are only 2 and the one in him. Maybe RAB did destroy the locket, leaving only 1 and the one in LV.
37 Travis Prinzi 01.26.06 at 9:21 am: jj, thanks for the comments. I don’t think Voldemort has to “use up” a horcrux in order to stay alive. I think the mere existence of other, separate parts of the soul keep him alive.

As for Nagini, we really don’t know how a horcrux is created, so we don’t know whether Voldemort would have been able to create one in his weakened state. It is a good consideration, though.
38 maca 01.27.06 at 7:26 pm: IF nagini is a horcrux did voldemort make her one before o after the 4th book?? because is he made her before then she probably is not… mmm… im tryiing to think to to explain it… if some need to use a wand to transform an object into a horcrux then when harrys and voldemorts wand joind and every spell that voldemort had done came out… the was no sigh of nagini being a horcrux…

i tried my best to explain it in engilish… it would have been better in spanish, but i tried!
39 Bandar 01.28.06 at 1:25 am: I do not believe that created 6 horcruxes (the 7th being in his body that attacked the Potters). I believe that he split his soul intentionally 7 times (which would creat 7 horcruxes, plus the part of his soul he lost the night he attacked the potters). Here is the breakdown based on this:

Destroyed:
1. Original body
2. Slytherin’s ring
3. Voldemort’s school diary

Not destroyed:
4. His current body
5. Slytherin’s locket (which R.A.B.
supposedly removed and hopefully
destroyed)
6. Hufflepuff’s cup
7. Nagini (possible)
8. An object of Gryffindor’s/Ravenclaw’s (or
Harry Potter himself as some believe)

If Nagini is an actual horcrux, then it would be likely that this supports what I’m saying of him splitting his soul 7 times (into 8 pieces). If Nagini is not, then he just split his soul into 7 pieces. Either way would fit his passion for magical numbers (splitting it 7 times or into 7 pieces).

Just my thoughts
40 Bandar 01.28.06 at 1:32 am: Oh ya, one more thing. The theory that Harry is a horcrux is supported by 2 major things. One is obvious, if he is then that would explain why he can speak parseltongue, glimpse into Voldemort’s mind, etc. etc. you all already know this. The second is less obvious and I haven’t seen it posted or talked about before. If he is, then it stands to reason that he would share a mental connection with other living horcruxes, this includes Nagini (now we are assuming that Nagini is in fact a horcrux). The part about his mental connection to Voldemort could be explained as he was marked etc. But why would he have a mental connection with the snake unless they were both horcruxes? Any thoughts?
41 Mara 01.28.06 at 4:32 am: Travis (and all readers),

I’m of the belief that Harry (or his scar) is a Horcrux. I’ll try to keep my reasons brief(ish).

If I’m correct, we do not yet know of a witness to the happenings of the night at Godric’s Hollow. How then, are we certain that he tried to use Avada Kendavra on Harry?

What if instead he used James’s murder to turn Harry into a Horcrux (He says Lily doesn’t need to die)? This would not be beyond him, in fact it might even appeal. He doesn’t need to hear the second half of the prophecy to know how wonderfully ironic it would be to place a part of himself in the baby who was supposedly fated to be his downfall.

People say that LV wouldn’t try to kill Harry if he’d made him a Horcrux. Not true! When he made Harry one (I don’t agree you can make them accidentally, btw, it seems that to commit an act so evil and against nature it would have to be an act of extreme will), LV had not yet experienced the half-life that’s said to be worst than the leanest ghost. But once he had, the choice would be clear: Kill Harry and sacrifice one of his Horcruxes in the process, or return to this half-life, potentially never being able to return to full strength (not to mention a body) again.

As for the graveyard and Priori Incantatem; no, there’s not evidence of a Horcrux spell. There’s no evidence of any spells except murders!

Someone battle me back and forth on this, I’m trying to find points that I can’t shoot down!

I don’t know about LV making his soul split more or less than 7 ways. Seven is said to be an extremely magical number within the books. Until I get better ideas, I’m guessing this was LV’s train of thought….

1. His Diary (an homage to himself. guh.)
2. Slytherin’s ring
3. Slytherin’s locket
4. Hufflepuff’s cup
5. Something of Ravenclaw’s (I’ve heard of a necklace and tiara, but I think this is all from websites and not books)
6. Voldemort was all set to grab something of Gryffindor’s, but then came the prophecy and Harry is a much more clever option.

Anyone? Anyone?
42 Bandar 01.28.06 at 7:42 am: It was said in GoF that the only person that had survived the Avada Kedavra curse was Harry Potter (the fake Moody’s first lecture with the 4th years). No, if Harry is a horcrux (and I do mean IF), it has to be certainly accidental. Think about this, if Voldemort intentionally made him one, why would he try to kill him in the graveyard at the end of GoF? Me personally, I’m still not convinced that he is, although that would be a wicked twist. I think, that with the help of Hermione and Ron (and undoubtedly others), he will track down the last horcruxes, duel Voldemort, and die anyways. Life loves a tragedy. Although, I do not think the 7th book will be the last, unless it is longer than TotF, because there are still so many unanswered questions and so much to do. Also, Harry’s magical knowledge is still very limited compared to Voldemorts (and his Death Eaters) even though he has accomplished more than any wizard ever has where Voldemort is concerned. I think there will be 2 or maybe even 3 more books since Harry, Ron and Hermione have decided not to return to Hogwarts.
43 Bandar 01.28.06 at 7:49 am: Oh ya, to your point about him not wanting to return to his half-life, I think that he would still prefer it to not being alive at all. At the end of GoF, in the graveyard, he said something to the effect of (now don’t quote me on the exact words) “I was not alive, but neither was I dead.” I think that he preferred the option of having a chance to come back, especially when he said something like “you know of the great steps I have taken to be immortal” to his Death Eaters (once again don’t quote me on the exact wording). True he didn’t know what it would be like to experience the near-death that he did that night in Godric Hollow, but I think he still would prefer it. Also, now that his Death Eaters KNOW that he CAN come back, they would not stop looking for him. When he was beaten the first time, most of them thought him dead and gone forever but now they know different and it would not take long for them to find him again.
44 Travis Prinzi 01.28.06 at 8:52 am: Lots to respond to here! If I’m responding to your comments, I’ll put your name in bold.

maca, good thoughts about nagini. My response would be as follows: I think JKR may give us a clue to why no horcrux spell came out of the wand when his wand connecte with Harry’s. When Voldemort comes back, he makes mention of spells that “require the use of a wand.” This would be a pointless statement if there wasn’t such thing as a spell that did not require a wand. Hence, I submit the possibility that the horcrux spell does not require wand use, and so would not have shown up during the wand connection. What do you think? (by the way, I understood your English just fine).

Mara, ok, let’s debate! We need more of a reason for LV to want to make Harry a horcrux than your assertion that it’s “brilliant.” LV works alone, does not want ot be dependent on anyone, and destroys any potential threat on his life. Why would he deliberately make a horcrux out of his prophecied vanquisher, hence allowing him to live AND making him dependent upon Harry’s existence to stay alive?

You indeed have a good point about needing to really mean a spell when you cast it. But we still don’t know the process of horcrux creation, any way you look at it. If it’s a wandless spell and a complex process, he may have been in the middle of (or just completed) the process of creating one (on his own wand maybe?) when he turned on Harry, and some sort of accidental horcrux occurred in Harry’s scar when Avada Kedavra backfired.

Your objection that at priori incantantem there’s no evidence of any spells except for murders would destroy your theory as well, since he would have cast a horcrux spell on Harry after killing his parents, and we saw his parents. So your objection against the Nagini horcrux would also apply to a Harry horcrux (unless my theory about it being a wandless spell is correct).

Bandar, I see where you’re going on this, but any way you look at it, it would seem that making 7 horcruxes would result in 8 parts of Voldemort’s soul, hence exceeding the most powerful magic number (which Voldemort would not want to do). If 8 were created, it was accidental, in my opinion. (See the theory in this post). Also, JKR has said over and over again that there are only 7 books.

Stay tuned for two or three new posts on horcruxes in the very near future!
45 Mara 01.28.06 at 9:26 pm: It is everyone’s assumption that Volemort tried to use Avada Kendavra and then failed. No one was witness to it, they just think that must be what happened. I’ve read (I’ll see if I can find where) that JKR has mentioned the importance in the location of Harry’s scar. Avada Kendavra hits you in the chest, Harry’s scar is on his forehead.

Character wise, I think it’s imporant that Voldemort is incredibly arrogant and seems to underestimate those who he thinks are inferior. Is he really making himself dependent upon Harry? When (assuming he did, of course) he made Harry a Horcrux, he still had all six others. What threat could this child actually be, and even if he was…

The phrase “the closer you are to danger the farther you are from harm” keeps playing in my head. If Voldemort were to store a piece of himself in his supposed vanquisher without anyone knowing, it seems more to me like insurance that no one would ever get to that Horcrux. It’s the best hiding spot I could think of for one.

I’ve been trying to figure out the whole Priori Incantatem thing, and I think that your theory about Horcruxes being a wandless spell might fit in. I like the idea of LV’s wand, but it was clear (to me at least) that LV wanted his Horcruxes safe but far from him, hidden away. If someone ever were to ‘kill’ Voldemort then his wand would likely be destroyed too. They wanted to destroy Harry’s just for his patronus that saved Dudley!

Just so you know, I’m not dead set that Harry is one. It’s just such a clever idea that seems to be well set up in the books. JKR said (when HBP came out) that it was likely that some fans could identify one of the Horcruxes by carefully rereading the books, and I can’t spot what else it would be.
46 Travis Prinzi 01.29.06 at 10:31 pm: Mara, you’re correct - it has been pretty much assumed by all that LV attempted Avada Kedavra on Harry. The green light Harry occasionally remembers would lead us to think that as well, though that green light may have been the shot that killed Lily. You raise a good point. JKR is so good at narrative misdirection, perhaps LV did not fire the AK curse at Harry (though I still think he did).

You’re absolutely right about LV’s character traits. I might want to counter, however, by saying that LV was the one who put stock in the prophecy, and his greatest fear is death, so he would likely want to eliminate his prophesied vanquisher.

At the same time…putting a horcrux in Harry would effectively thwart the prophecy altogether, wouldn’t it? Because it would no longer be true that “neither can live while the other survives,” because, indeed, Harry’s very existence would guarantee Voldemort’s. Fascinating.

You’ve added a lot for us to think about!
47 matt.w 01.30.06 at 7:52 am: Has no-body considered the fact that since LV has risen again that he has not created more Horcruxes. DD tells us that Lv knows the diary has been destroyed, so surely LV would make another Horcruxe, maybe from madam bones. I think wormtail is a possible horcrux, thats the reason snapes got him locked up. LV will never die, dumbeldore says the only way to win is to fifght and fight till you keep at bay and he also says to LV there are other ways to destroy a man tom, i dont think harry will kill LV. Thanks all xx
48 Travis Prinzi 01.30.06 at 8:23 am: Matt.w, thanks for joining the conversation! I’m not sure what the tie would be between LV rising again and not having anymore horcruxes. He doesn’t actually use his horcruxes to come back to life…they just guarantee that he will remain alive if his body is destroyed.

I think the horcrux discussion in Half-Blood Prince makes it pretty clear that LV can be defeated entirely, once all his horcruxes are destroyed.
49 maca 01.30.06 at 6:26 pm: hii!

real short… maybe wormtails silver hand is a horcrux… after alll it was donde right after wormtail killed cedric with VOLDEMORTS wand! im not sure if this is correct because it was done by wormtail but with voldemorts wand…

ohh and another thing!! in an english news paper they said that james potter father is called Charlus potter and his mother is Dorea Black! the pag where i got it is in spanish but if u want it i can send it later!

bye
50 Mara 01.30.06 at 11:38 pm: Maca,

I’d love to see the page with the Dorea Black thing! Makes very interesting ties w/Sirius!!

Matt.w,

I’ve thought about why LV didn’t create more Horcruxes to replace the old ones. I’ve come up with two theories:

a. Everyone’s right on the equal division of soul when you make a Horcrux (I’m dubbing this the 1/64th Theory if that’s okay?), so any Horcruxes that LV would make would be very weak and leave him very weak as well.

b. There really is power in a seven part soul and creating more divisions of his soul (replacements) would weaken that.

Travis,
Thanks buddy! I like how you brought up the light, maybe it was Lily. Maybe the Horcrux spell also casts a green light?

I’m really loving the debate on your site, no one is mean and great ideas are coming out!
51 Travis Prinzi 01.31.06 at 12:17 am: maca, I have come across that suggestion (Wormtail’s hand) as well. My hesitation would be that, though Wormtail has been faithful, he is also a coward, and LV knows it. I’d be hard-pressed to think LV would entrust a piece of his soul into something connected so closely to Wormtail. But it is a possibility.

Mara, two additional thoughts on LV creating more horcruxes:

1. He knows the diary is destroyed, but does he know the ring is? He may only be aware that one is destroyed.

2. We have almost no inkling whatsoever into what Voldemort is doing throughout the duration of Half-Blood Prince. Perhaps he has created more, and we don’t know about it (though I doubt it, personally, simply from the literary standpoint of having to introduce new horcruxes, their finding, and their destruction. JKR already has so much to include in Book 7).

And thank you…I do try very hard to keep discussion here respectful as well as intelligent. I appreciate everyone’s contributions.
52 korg20000bc 01.31.06 at 5:31 am: The thing about Pettigrew is that he is also currently indebted to Harry for his life- when Harry had mercy on him and stood in front of him when Remus and Sirius were about to kill him (or was Harry warding Remus and Sirius from becoming murderers?).

Dumbledore makes a point of telling Harry that this is something that Voldemort would not be at all happy about. One of his lieutenants having a life debt to his prophesised vanquisher. But Voldemort believes that Pettigrew is completely cowed and is loyel only because of fear.

My guess is that Pettigrew is going to be instrunmental in the fall of Voldemort.

Matt
53 Travis Prinzi 01.31.06 at 10:35 am: Matt, I agree - Pettigrew’s indebtedness to Harry will play a role, perhaps a very significant one, in Book 7.
54 maca 01.31.06 at 12:21 pm: mara,

here is the page:
http://www.eldiccionario.org/personajes/indice.htm

the only thing is that it is in spanish… but it still works!
there is also a family tree
if u see the blacks there is a family tree conecting almost everybody, even the potters…

travis,

i agree that voldemort thinks wormtail is a coward, but maybe that is the thing… wormtail is afraid to leave voldemort so having a horcrux that close to him may be helpful… by having wormtail that close to him he can be absolutly sure he still has 1 horcrux left ( the hand )! he knows he is still inmortal!
that may be the horcrux which we thought might be nagini…
55 Travis Prinzi 01.31.06 at 1:01 pm: maca, I can’t recall…do we have any inclination that LV knows that Pettigrew is indebted to Harry? That would be a determining factor, I think. If LV is unaware of that, the “Wormtail’s hand” theory is plausible, for the reasons you stated. It wouldn’t even have to be instead of nagini; it could be in replacement of the lost diary horcrux.
56 korg20000bc 02.08.06 at 8:13 am: Although we don’t really know that Voldemort suspects that Pettigrew is in Harry’s debt, the conversation in the Riddle mansion between Voldemort and Wormtail (GoF) is fairly indicative.

Pettigrew attempts to talk Voldemort out of his intention to kill Harry but it seems that Voldemort is suspicious of his motives. Pettigrew is swiftly bullied/threatened back into line but it seems that there is doubt sown.

Matt
57 Ginny 03.13.06 at 6:00 pm: Hello!
well, I havent got much time,
but I just wanted to say one thing.
Nagini,
Dumbledore suspects Nagini is a Horcrux. We of course can’t prove this is true, but if you think about it…It realy could be true..
Nagini is highly protected by Voldemort AND is controled by Voldemort.
The thing is, it is a snake, and definetly acts like one.
lastly, remember the dream Harry had when Mr Weasley was bitten.
Remeber Harry was a SNAKE in the dream, not, of course, a human. He was Voldemort right?…So, if you think about it, it could of been Voldemorts horcrux in Nagini.

well, thats all:D…hope you guys pass through my flogs:D…:
http://www.fotolog.net/magic_em
http://www.fotolog.net/hp_magical_three
http://www.fotolog.net/hpotter_fans

ciao!

ho!..And I agree with the thing of wormtail:P..
58 maca 03.13.06 at 7:30 pm: hey!!
wow no new comments!!
its been a long time since i last came!
well mmm… i was wondering how harry was going to get the horcruxes if he said he would not go back to hogwarts… i think he should finish hogwarts and be ready but can he really face all the horcruxes and voldemort with out his last year of school??
just wondering!
thats it

maca!
59 Ginny 03.14.06 at 10:32 am: hi maca!
well, i thought about that to!
and well, JK said hw WILL finish school.
not much to say realy,
apart from telling you your web page is awsome!!
I allways visit it!:D
ho!..and please…please..tell me how to make a web page…I’ve been dying to make one and well, I haven’t had any luck.
well, that would be it!
bye!
60 Ginny 03.14.06 at 10:33 am: hi!…me again, just noticed i spelled hw instead of harry..well, just thought you ought to know!
bye!
61 Travis Prinzi 03.15.06 at 8:47 am: Maca, remember what Dumbledore said was “the power the Dark Lord knows not”? It was Harry’s ability to love. I think one of the key points JKR is trying to make is that it’s not about magical ability and talent - it’s about our choice to love. How this will play out, I don’t know, but it is not one more year of training that he needs to defeat Voldemort. It’s to figure out how love is the power that he knows not.

Ginny, it all depends on what kind of website you want to make. If you want a blog, like this website, you can sign up for free ones at blogger.com or wordpress.com. Just sign up and follow the directions; it’s really quite easy. If that’s not what you’re looking for, then you need to learn how to build websites (or have someone build one for you), buy a domain name and web space from a provider, and learn how to use FTP software to upload it. All kind of complex if you’re just getting started.
62 Ginny 03.15.06 at 10:45 am: Thanx Travis!
I guess I’ll begin with a blog, i’m not very good with computers and stuff. THANX!…
I think the power of love will realy make a difference. I’me sure JK will prove to harry that love can, ofcourse, save you. It might not be a power, as you said, but I guess without love, there is no friendship, no love, no one to rely on. Get it?….I think Voldemorts weakness is that. Im not at all good at explaining, but my point is, love DOES and WILL make a difference.

Maca: I know im kinda late for saying this but. Â¿the hand?…I’m not sure its a horcrux, allthough, as you might remember, the posibilities are high. After all, to make a horcrux, someone has to be killed (Cedric)…and remember in the fourth book a part in where powers shooot out of Voldys wand?…(dont remeber well, but it was somthing like that)…Ho!..and I wanted to add something, I dont know if you lot know, but JK said there is a hiden horcrux in one of the books…could it be in grimmauld place?…youknow, the little box that didint open..might something be in there??…

Ginny!…
thanx a million Travis!
63 Ginny 03.15.06 at 10:56 am: hi!
me again:p..just a little question..how do you change the background of the blog?…i’ve just finished making my acount but am having a hard time fixing it:P
pls help me!

–>G i n n y
64 Travis Prinzi 03.15.06 at 11:42 am: Yes, most people think the horcrux that we could easily find is the locket at Grimmauld Place.

Whichever blog client you’re using (Blogger or Wordpress), there should be options available to change the background. Look around the site once you’ve logged in. You should be able to find something about “themes,” and there should be a selection of alternate themes.
65 Matt 03.23.06 at 12:33 am: What I think the Horcruxes are.
1) Ring
2) Diary
3) Nagini
4) Hufflepuff cup-Hufflepuff
5) Sorting Hat-Griffindor
6) Locket-Slytherin
7) Book in Restricted section that screams-Ravenclaw
66 maca 03.27.06 at 8:10 pm: jk rowling has said on her web site that the sorting hat is not a horcrux!!
so the other option is the sword but it has been in dumbledors office ever since harry took it out from the hat… the only thing that i can think of is where was the sword before it was in the hat??…
67 BjAx 03.29.06 at 10:29 am: Could the Triwizard Cup be a horcrux ?
68 korg20000bc 03.29.06 at 7:57 pm: BjAx,
I don’t think so. The cup is something that is important to Durmstrang and Beauxbatons as well as Hogwarts. And Voldemort seems interested in objects that are personally important to him or to the founders of Hogwarts. It’s a good idea though.

I brings something to my mind that I’m not sure I read in the stories- hopefully someone can correct me. It was Dumbledore stating that objects that Voldemort would want to use as Horcruxes would already be powerful magical objects. Why? is it because of their significance to the wizarding world and therfore add to the reluctance of wizards in destroying these items OR is it that already powerful magical objects would take steps to protect themselves eg. Marvolo’s ring striking back at Dumbledore (and possibly killing him?) and Riddle’s diary’s efforts to possess Ginny and open the Chamber of Secrets, and the potion in the cup that would have killed Dumbledore if Harry wasn’t there.

If my idea is correct and not just something I have remembered incorrectly, then the Triwizard Cup is certainly a target for Voldemort. A good question to ask ourselves is “What are some other powerful magical objects that we know of?”.

I’m starting to lean away from Nagini being a horcrux and being something more like a familiar. She is certainly a loyal and powerful servant to Voldemort and he seems to control her but this could be his parcelmouth ability? A living thing seems to be a bit frail for Voldemort’s goal of immortality.

Matt
69 Barb 03.31.06 at 10:31 am: You can make six horcruxes and keep the seventh part of your soul in your own body. But maybe seven is the limit, so that if you make seven horcruxes (because you have made one by mistake without realising it) you could end up with no soul left in your own body at all. So - Harry (or his scar) is a Horcrux but Voldemort doesn’t realise this. In the last book Harry and his friends destroy 4 (or 3) more horcruxes and then go after Voldemort. In the final duel, Voldemort destroys Harry and in doing so destroys the final Horcrux and himself. What do you think?

Mutually assured destruction, as we used to say during the Cold War.
70 Travis Prinzi 03.31.06 at 11:09 am: Barb, interesting theory, but my guess is that if Harry’s scar is a horcrux, Voldemort knows about it. Why else would he specifically give instructions NOT to kill him in Half-Blood Prince?
71 korg20000bc 04.20.06 at 2:21 am: Travis,
He may give specific instructions not to kill Harry because he believes that he can use Harry to gain knowledge about Dumbledore and The Order of the Pheonix in the same way that Harry has learned stuff about Voldemort through their mind connection.

I don’t think that the reasons you have given above is conclusive.

Matt
72 Deborah 04.20.06 at 2:35 am: How do we know that LV instructions for Harry not being destroyed wasn’t so that the Dark Lord could take care of Harry himself as well? (You know, the typical bad guy wants to make sure things get taken care of properly sort of thing.) Maybe he has some kind of binding curse he wants to perform that would prevent Harry from being able to help out in any possible way after death as well.
73 Travis Prinzi 04.20.06 at 7:30 am: Matt and Deborah,

Those are definitely both points worthy of consideration. I think the horcrux explanation more likely for the following reasons:

1) If LV ordered Harry not to be killed so he could learn more about Dumbledore and the Order, we have to wonder why he didn’t make any attempt to do so throughout the entirety of Half-Blood Prince.

2) It is possible LV wanted to just take care of Harry himself, but we should remember this: LV puts a LOT more stock in the prophecy than anyone else. If there were a chance for Harry to be killed without even having to face LV, this would be a more attractive option to him (it seems to me), since that would ensure there was no way for Harry to be on the winning side of the prophecy, “Neither can live while the other survives.”

But I agree - my theory is not conclusive. Just a theory!
74 Deborah 04.20.06 at 10:15 am: Travis: I thought LV didn’t hear the later part of the prophecy. I’m pretty sure that the “Neither can live while the other survives” line came at the end. Yet, you are correct about LV taking great stock in the prophecy. Since LV trusts no one completely, saving Harry for himself would still fit in my opinion.

As to LV’s plans for Harry in HBP, I’m afraid my memory is fading somewhat. I just remember Snape saying at the end that Harry is to be dealt with by LV and not anyone else. We also know from GoF that LV is patient and meticulous. WAITING to get more information on the Order etc… would have been consistant with his character. He could have been waiting to try and do everything all at once, which would require a lot of planning. Additionally, didn’t LV cut off his connection to Harry during HBP? Doing so would have been because he couldn’t be sure that he could 1) minipulate Harry again and 2) Keep Harry from finding out his plans. Probing Harry about the Order and DD would have exposed him to these risks. Just some food for though.

This debating stuff is soooo much fun! You guys are great at it too! All this thinking makes me realize it is probably time for me to read HBP again. I just finished OoTP and I was suprised by how many things I had forgotton or missed.
75 Travis Prinzi 04.20.06 at 10:21 am: Deborah, you’re right - major brain freeze on my part. LV didn’t hear the entire prophecy. I mean, unless he tapped into Harry’s brain during his conversation with Dumbledore at the end of Order, which I suppose is possible, but would be pure speculation.
76 Deborah 04.20.06 at 3:04 pm: Though I haven’t decided whether Nagini is actaully a horcrux, I have some thoughts that would support LV making Harry an INTENTIONAL horcrux for arguments sake, as well as why he could have been so oblivious to his and Harry’s mind connection until OoTP. Bear with me now, as this may be a little difficult to describe and possibly a bit weak.

1) LV believes the portion of the prophecy he hears and decides that first making Harry a horcrux and then killing him would be the perfect backup plan incase he ever failed. He may think that this horcrux would still serve him even if Harry were dead, or even gambled that one portion of his soul might be worth the risk. (This could also explain why Lily had a choice over life and death, but James didn’t, as JKR mentions this CHOICE was a significant addition to her sacrifice that gave it such powers. James would have been the only death needed since he was the first one killed. Else, why didn’t his sacrifice protect his wife and child like Lilies?)

2) After Lily refuses to spare herself and dies, LV makes a horcrux of Harry and then tries to kill him. Maybe killing 2 people instead of one weakend the portion of his soul that would be placed into Harry, or it could have caused him to unintentionally place 2 parts of him inside Harry rather than 1. Reguardless, when he tried to kill Harry with a piece, or pieces, of his own soul inside him, the killing curse somehow backfired because of his attempt to destroy a part of himself. The scar could have been where LV’s own soul struck back at him, leaving him practically dead. (The double horcrux theory would most likely support the Dark Lords unawareness of Harry as a horcrux theory because he could have really destroyed one portion in his attempt to kill Harry, not realizing that another lived on, but I won’t get into that possibility as that isn’t the purpose of my arguments at this time.) Who knows?

3) Seeing that LV’s killing curse backfired, he could have either not realized that Harry was still a horcrux like you mention, OR he could have not realized that there would be a mind/soul connection to this living horcrux. We could say that because since LV had only performed (assumably) inanimate horcruxes up to this point, he didn’t know what would happen entirely if he made a live one. After all, LV was warned that making a living creature into a horcrux could have dangerous or unpredictable outcomes. LV could have caught on to this link later on though, because as his powers grew stronger, so too could have the powers binding him to Harry. Since LV gained back most of his strength by the end of GoF and the beginning of OoTP, this would fit perfectly in the same timeline you give for him to realize that Harry is in fact a horcrux in the first place. Gradually, he would finally realize what is going on.

Even Nagini being made into a horcrux at the beginning of GoF could still work within that same time frame for this theory. Assuming LV discovered his own link to Nagini right away, which I doubt, he couldn’t guarentee a similar connection exsisted with Harry. Especially since things appeared to have gone terribly wrong the night he made Harry a horcrux. He was probably too focused on his plans to connect the dots, per say, until it became obvious anyhow.

Having said all of that, I would have to admit that Travis is probably right that LV may have not needed his wand to perform a horcrux curse, because if he did we would have to say goodbye to the Nagini/Frank Bryce theory as well as Harry, or his scar, being made a horcrux prior to the priori incident, because it would have needed to show up in the wand regurgitation sceen. I do like the cane insight though, because if that happened, (I don’t remember well enough) that would still work for Nagini’s transformation into a horcrux. Would we say that Harry’s killing curse didn’t show up because it wasn’t successful then too?
77 korg20000bc 04.21.06 at 8:27 am: Deborah,
I don’t think that horcrux creation works like you have stated ie. “I’ll put two part of my soul in this one!”. I think that you’ve just got to split whatever you have to work with. Voldemort wanted to do this seven times ie. make seven horcruxes NOT seven parts to his soul.

Also we don’t know that Nagini is a horcrux at all. In OOTP it suggests that Voldemort possessed Nagini in book 5 but this does not indicate a horcrux. Voldemort has possessed a number of other characters in the books including Harry and Prof. Quirrell. All we know is that a large snake entered the ministry and was searching for the entrance to a certain room and then attacked Arthur. My immediate thought was that this was Nagini, but I’m sure that… hmmm is Voldemort an animagus? Was it Voldemort in a snake form that did the attacking?

Horcrux casting may require a wand but the priori incantum incident didn’t show this as Voldemort hasn’t created any new horcruxes since his downfall. They’ve already proved themselves effective. They are not used up by keeping Voldemort in existance. Why make more?

The only Horcrux that Voldemort knows has been destroyed is the diary. He may know about the ring if Slughorn dobbed him in. He obviously doesn’t check up on them regularly since the locket had been switched some time ago and had not been discovered.

I’m waiting for the moment in book seven when Harry is yelling at Voldemort “You killed my father!” and Voldemort replies “No. I am your father!” and Harry comes back with “NO! That’s not possible!!!”

Matt
78 Deborah 04.22.06 at 1:24 pm: Matt:

Your arguments about Nagini being possesed are important and valid. That is exactly why I stated that I wasn’t so sure that she is a horcrux in the first place. (Please note the first sentence of my statement.) The part I mentioned about Nagini was for arguments sake, since so many believe that she is a horcrux, as to how LV wouldn’t be aware of his mind connection to Harry had he had another living horcrux around.

You must have been in a rush or distracted when you read my comments. I never suggested that LV wanted to divide his soul into 7 parts. I simply stated that he could have “weakend the portion of his soul that would be placed into Harry, or it could have caused him to unintentionally place 2 parts of him inside Harry rather than 1″. Please note the word UNINTENTIONALLY in there, as that is key. This, assuming LV had in fact created all but one division of his soul that he intended, COULD have explained how things went wrong that night. So, I have no idea why you would write “I donâ€™t think that horcrux creation works like you have stated ie. â€œIâ€™ll put two part of my soul in this one!â€.” Additionally, didn’t the books say that everytime a cold blooded murder is committed, the soul is rent? Maybe I’m wrong on that, but if that is the case, then LV could have only been attempting to encase 7 portions of himself, not neccessarily every portion of his soul. Just a side thought.

Despite all of that, your argument “Horcrux casting may require a wand but the priori incantum incident didnâ€™t show this as Voldemort hasnâ€™t created any new horcruxes since his downfall” however led me to review the graveyard seen. What I found was that you are correct on the wand usage/priori portion, though your explanation is off.

In priori incantatem, I had assumed that everything that came out of the wand was a complete reversal of spells. Upon review, I saw that LV’s wand was used to conjure up ropes to bind Harry after Cedric’s death (by Wormtail), as well as preform the Cruciatus Curse on Harry a number of times as well as on Avery (by LV) aside from Cedrics murder and Wormtail’s arm. These spells not only required the use of a wand, but failed to show up in the priori incident as well. So, harrah for clearing up that one!

Everyone:

While reviewing the above mentioned sceens I also noted that Frank Bryce’s cane was with him,as well as in his usage, so the argument that it could be a horcrux seems less likely to me now, though not impossible I suppose. Nice try though!
79 korg20000bc 04.23.06 at 12:36 am: Hello Deborah,
I also read that comment by Dumbledore where he stated that when one commits murder the soul us rent. What I took that to mean is that the soul is damaged or wounded or torn. I didn’t take it as being torn in half or into however many pieces. I definately believe that Voldemort has murdered many more times than he has made horcruxes. Dumbledore said that to make a horcrux you needed to do something shockingly brutal like murder. Why I wrote that I didn’t think horcrux creation worked like you had stated is that it’s the murder that does the rending and wounds the soul to a point that is can be broken and a part placed in a horcrux.

I think the comment about “2″ parts confused me. Surely when Voldemort comes to create a horcrux he’s only got 1 soul to work with. He performs his evil deed that rends his soul and put half his divided soul into the horcrux and keeps the other half in his body. When he come to make another horcrux he still only has one soul to work with. Did you mean that he may have accidently put more of his soul into Harry than he meant to? Or that he made 2 horcruxes when he fiddled with Harry?

You wrote “Despite all of that, your argument â€œHorcrux casting may require a wand but the priori incantum incident didnâ€™t show this as Voldemort hasnâ€™t created any new horcruxes since his downfallâ€ however led me to review the graveyard seen. What I found was that you are correct on the wand usage/priori portion, though your explanation is off.”.

That comment of mine was poorly stated. What I mean to write was that I believe that Voldemort hasn’t made any new horcruxes since he got his wand back as evidenced by the priori incantum not showing anything like that. But even this is off-mark as what would be shown anyway? What would cruciatis look like?

You are definately correct about the ropes not being shown during the priori incantum sequence. Is this an oversight by Rowling?
Yes hurrah! We have defintely and finally nailed down that the priori incantum incident is completely inconclusive!

Good commenting

Matt
80 Deborah 04.23.06 at 5:28 pm: Matt: It is very possible that the ropes binding Harry not showing up in priori incantatum is an oversight of JKR. I know that the original hard back book of GoF mentioned Harry’s father comming out of the wand before his mother, but was corrected in subsequent soft bound editions later on. I would have to assume though, that she would have rethought the process through during the correction process and caught any other inconsistancies from that sceen, but one never knows.

Having said all that, there does remain the fact that there could be another explanation for the ropes not showing up during priori. Creating the arm and killing people both have to do with LIVING things, either the creation of one, or the COMPLETE destruction of one, as LV himself would have had to come out since his curse was rebounded upon himself. Since the ropes are inanimate, one could explain that they don’t fit the exact same mold. So, you are correct to say that priori incantatum incident is inconclusive thus far after all. Though wand usage HAS been shown to have been involved in every regurgitated spell, it can now be seen that it ISN’T the sole determinant (if it is one at all) like was originally purposed.

As for your question of whether I was refering to 2 portions of LV’s soul, or 2 horcruxes: I was suggesting that 2 portions of LV could have been placed into 1 horcrux (Harry)unintentionally. One of them could have been destroyed by LV’s killing curse meant for Harry, though it destroyed LV’s body as recompense to breaking some unknown law. (Comparable to many people’s belief that suicide is a sin.) That could be one explanation as to why Harry survived.

As for the rending of the soul, it is true that it could just damage it and not tear it completely. The fact is we don’t know exactly what happends. Good point though.
81 Plasmatical 04.25.06 at 8:35 pm: Dumbledore says that Lord Voldemort appears to have reserved the process of making Horcruxes for significant deaths.

Significant Murders by Voldemort:
The Potters
Some members of the Order of the Phionix.
R.A.B - if dead - remember the note.

It is therefore unlikely that Nagini is a Horcrux - Frank Bryce’s death wasn’t significant.

http://www.hprab.blogspot.com - some of my theories.
82 Lisa 05.09.06 at 6:45 pm: Hi there!

I’m