Book 7 Title: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

by Travis Prinzi on December 21, 2006

News reports today say that Scholastic has released the title of the final book: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

Who saw that coming?

“Deathly” – well, something pertaining to death, causing death, or like/in the manner of death. “Hallow” – comes from an old word for “Holy” (think, “Hallowed be Thy name” from the Lord’s Prayer). The death-like holy ones? The death-causing sacred ones?

I’m at work, so I hardly have the time to think much about this…Update: Nevermind, I can’t stop thinking about it. Initial, scattered thoughts:

  • This series has been about death from start to finish; so, really, no surprise on the name.
  • It’s also about dying well; so combining “death” with some plural form of “holy one” or “sacred one” is no surprise either.
  • While dead people don’t come back, what exactly is “the next great adventure”? Is Rowling actually going to go in that direction? Are we going to hear what happens to great wizards who pass on (Sirius, Dumbledore, Flamel, the Potters)?
  • Whatever the title means exactly (whatever a “deathly hallow” is), it’s going to link us in some way to wrapping up Rowling’s thoughts for us on this key theme of death.

I’m going to try to push ahead and get the next podcast out tonight if I can, or tomorrow night.

In the meantime, any ideas?

Update: This is comment #9; a commenter has found some excellent and interesting material at Leaky Cauldron:

I read a very interesting post over at the Leaky Cauldron that appeals to me very much:

“The Hallows could refer to the Four Hallows of Arthurian legend. They are intimately connected to the Grail and ultimately probably go back to the Four Treasures of the Tuatha de Danaan of Irish myth.

The Four Hallows are:

The Cup or Chalice
The Baton or Wand
The Sword or Dagger
The Coin, Disc or Pentacle

I think we were right all along in connecting the horcruxes to the four elements. These hallows are associated with the elements, and match up quite nicely to the remaining horcruxes:

Cup (HH)
Baton or Wand (RR)
Sword or Dagger (GG)
Pentacle (SS locket)

Just my two knuts!”

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{ 150 comments… read them below or add one }

1 ChristinaNo Gravatar December 21, 2006 at 1:21 pm

When I think of the word Hallow, I think of “Hallowed Halls”. Like the halls of the Ministry. Maybe JKR will explore that room in the MInsitry that DD talked about that is so mysterious, as well as what can be done with Harry’s mirror…

I definitely think that she will delve into the afterlife, as it is in the Wizarding World. But I certainly would have NEVER guessed that name for the last book!

2 DerekNo Gravatar December 21, 2006 at 2:00 pm

I don’t believe Harry will die in this book, but the title could be read that way: Deathly Hallows == The sacred aspect of death.

3 PauliNo Gravatar December 21, 2006 at 2:01 pm
4 pennyNo Gravatar December 21, 2006 at 2:39 pm

Thanks for the plug. I look forward to hearing what you have to say as well!

Penny

5 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar December 21, 2006 at 3:28 pm

Penny, I just learned of your site from the link at Muggle Matters. Looks great, and I’m looking forward to reading what you’ve done there. I also noticed you do a podcast, which I’ll be subscribing to forthwith.

6 tracydaisyNo Gravatar December 21, 2006 at 5:37 pm

Hello,
It’s been awhile since I’ve joined in on the conversation, but I just couldn’t help myself. :)

Deathly Hallows
Could this be refering to the deaths that occurred on Halloween, Lily and James died on Halloween, I believe the dying for another is the greatest act of love, so their deaths, dying for their son, would apear to have been a holy death. Maybe Harry is going to find out what happened the night his parents died.

7 CoryNo Gravatar December 21, 2006 at 10:53 pm

I read a very interesting post over at the Leaky Cauldron that appeals to me very much:

“The Hallows could refer to the Four Hallows of Arthurian legend. They are intimately connected to the Grail and ultimately probably go back to the Four Treasures of the Tuatha de Danaan of Irish myth.

The Four Hallows are:

The Cup or Chalice
The Baton or Wand
The Sword or Dagger
The Coin, Disc or Pentacle

I think we were right all along in connecting the horcruxes to the four elements. These hallows are associated with the elements, and match up quite nicely to the remaining horcruxes:

Cup (HH)
Baton or Wand (RR)
Sword or Dagger (GG)
Pentacle (SS locket)

Just my two knuts!”

8 DarylNo Gravatar December 21, 2006 at 11:50 pm

Does anyone think that this might be related to Godric’s Hollows, where Harry’s parents were killed?

9 CoryNo Gravatar December 22, 2006 at 8:45 pm

Also, in a BBC news article, it was stated:

“More clues might come from names that companies connected to JK have registered in the past – two of them were Harry Potter and the Hogwarts Hallows and Harry Potter and the Hallows of Hogwarts. Although no one but JK knows why these names were registered. ”

These names were registered with the UK and US Trademark Offices.

This would support the theory that the hallows could be the founders relics.

Also, a Russian fan posted that the Russian title translate to the English equivalent of “Harry Potter and the Fatal Relics”

10 FelicityNo Gravatar December 22, 2006 at 9:07 pm

My thoughts are posted:

Thoughts on the Meaning of “Deathly Hallows”

http://felicitys-mind.livejournal.com/4373.html

11 ChristinaNo Gravatar December 23, 2006 at 12:35 am

Cory: Your information appeals to me very much. I suggested in a different blog that, perhaps, LV made the Sword of Gryffindor a Horcrux when we went to DD’s office to ask for the DADA position (knowing full well that he would not get it, but it put him close to the sword). I also felt that the wand on the purple cushion in the window at Ollivander’s belonged to Rowena Ravenclaw and was made in to a Horcrux by Voldemort. I am lovin’ the Four Hallows theory. I think that Harry will find the items in Hogwarts, Grimmauld Place, and perhaps, Gringotts.

12 cortersNo Gravatar December 23, 2006 at 2:25 am

jk was hinting about killing off potter, i think it could happen! oh yeah, and remember in the last book, the intials left in the locket, i think they belong to sirius’ brother, regulus….and remember when everyone was cleaning sirius’s parents house, and they were throwing away all the antique stuff(they could’ve thrown out the locket!!!!) oh, and i like the 4 hallows theory! :)

13 CoryNo Gravatar December 23, 2006 at 10:55 am

Christina,

Thanks :) I really do think the hallows=horcruxs is the most appealing theory that I have read so far. However, I think Felicity is also on the right track that there are most likely nuanced meanings to the title.

And about the wand in Olivander’s window, I totally agree with you. I always felt that there was something important about it, and thought that perhaps it could be the Ravenclaw horcrux. It could explain Olivander’s disappearance. Either for good or for bad.

I hadn’t thought about the possibility that the sword had been made into a horcrux at the time LV was in DD’s office, but I guess we don’t really know that much about HOW a horcrux is created. Does the intended vessel need to be in physical proximity to the murder or not? If so, then there should be an intended horcrux at Godric’s Hollow. If LV went there with the intention of creating a horcrux, and a horcrux vessel needs to be in physical proximity to the murder, then LV must have brought it with him that night. This means that it is possible that the horcrux was created that night and is still in the ruins of Godric’s Hollow; that a horcrux was created that night and was carried off by another person such as Wormtail; or the ever present Harry is a Horcrux theory, which would mean there is an intended horcrux laying around that has no “soul piece” in it. I don’t know whether or not I subscribe to this theory, but if Ravenclaw’s wand is a horcrux and Harry or his scar is a horcrux, LV would have completed the collection of a Horcrux for each founder. After all, only a true Griffindor could have pulled the sword from the hat. :)

14 adamcaldwellNo Gravatar December 26, 2006 at 4:19 pm

Congratulations! You’ve been ’spitboxed’. Check out you post at:

http://www.spitboxmedia.com

God Bless!!!

15 widowsleepNo Gravatar January 16, 2007 at 11:15 am

I think that the something of Gryffindor is the wand. Harry’s and Voldemorts wand both share a feather from the Gryffindors Phoneix fawkes. Either of those coulldd have made a horcrux, and if would fit in with the prophecy ‘mark him as an equal’ by giving Harry a piece of voldemorts souls in his own wand.

16 GregNo Gravatar January 21, 2007 at 12:28 am

I found this on a arthurian legend site:
“In later Grail stories the sword is frequently broken, whereby the mending of the sword represents one of the tasks used to test the mettle of the Grail Knight”

What if the Gryffindor sword is a horcrux? Harry must destroy it, then mend it to slay Voldemort…

Sounded interesting…

17 ChristinaNo Gravatar January 21, 2007 at 6:33 pm

Greg, I have often thought that the SOG was a Horcrux, and that LV used the opportunity in DD’s office when he asked for the DADA position (knowing FULL WELL that he would not get it) to make it so. Remember when Harry thought he saw LV reach for his wand for a split second…I think he did it then.

18 korg20000bcNo Gravatar February 14, 2007 at 9:42 pm

wow, no thanks

19 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar February 14, 2007 at 9:58 pm

Fascinating. I’ve deleted the comment to which Matthew was responding.

20 korg20000bcNo Gravatar February 15, 2007 at 12:44 am

I didn’t think that was physicall possible
Matt

21 ReyhanNo Gravatar February 15, 2007 at 12:54 am

Very quick response from Travis.

Much appreciated. I had taken for granted the level of maturity on this site, forgetting that it must take some vigilance to keep it at that level.

22 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar February 15, 2007 at 9:28 am

Yeah, I try to keep things as clean as possible without having to resort to moderated comments.

23 davidNo Gravatar March 4, 2007 at 2:07 am

I can’t wait until deathly hallows come’s out, so then we can all find out what happens . =D

24 NadiaNo Gravatar March 6, 2007 at 12:11 am

Deathly Hallows, i must say or write for that matter, that i just didn’t see that one comming, i mean what does exactly this title mean?, is probably refering the name of the cementery where Lilly and James were burried? well we still have time to keep guessing.

25 NadiaNo Gravatar March 6, 2007 at 12:18 am

Deathly Hallows, in spanish it means something like “Los Santos de la Muerte”, or death saints, is some kind of clue that she is giving to her fans or, well i don’t know. I just can’t wait until the book finally come out. Even though i probably will have to wait for two weeks until the book arrives to Ecuador, where i live.
Bye, bye
lots of kisses. chao
xoxoxoxoxoxoxooxoxoxo

26 The Dark AvengerNo Gravatar March 23, 2007 at 9:34 am

Well I think Cory is right and that arthurian legend is the key. That would mean Olivander theory too.I think he was a descendant of Ravenclaw.I think harry may have got voldemort’s powers since i think u must think something like in expecto partronum and voldemort did it and thats why when he did the spell the powers got transferred to harry. The sword may never have been enchanted. I think he may have intended to do it. And … u know wat , I THINK HARRY IS THE DESCENDANT OF GODRIC GRYFFINDOR AND THATS WHY HE IS DESTINED TO KILL LORD VOLDEMORT

27 Ronfan333No Gravatar March 24, 2007 at 10:11 pm

If Harry Ron, or Hermione die I will baul!!!!! I will cry till i die….not really. But if they die i will cry just like i did with dumbledore only longer……. Im tellin u guys a couple things.1 bellatrix gets murdered by Nevile Longbottom i think… I think that Hermionee will kill Draco Harry kill voldemort voldemort kill snape and luscious and other people kill other people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

28 Ronfan333No Gravatar March 24, 2007 at 10:14 pm

Cory omg!!!!! i just looked up on the internet that something wand and ravenclaw!!! yay us We are gonna figure out somethin important without reading the book!!!! we should all talk and look info on the internet and discuss it to eachother on here.!!!!!!!!

29 AceNo Gravatar March 28, 2007 at 8:44 pm

Well… according to me… and this is JUST MY PERSONAL THEORY. I think Harry is the seventh and final Horcrux. It all adds up
1. “hallow” sacred = prophecy/harry
2. Rowling says that one main character will die at the end
3. Harry has all of Voldermonts powers (creepy and unatural)meaning he may have a hunk of his soul.
4. He was to make his last horcrux with the murder of the potters
5. This is the LAST BOOK. That says something, JKR is not a “happily ever after author”
Lastly, JKR disclosed that she made the last word in the book scar. The scar could be voldermonts soul. I mean why else would harry get a scar from a curse that leaves no damage visible to muggles or wizards? This all leads to the fact that Harry is a horcrux and i believe neville will be the one to kill voldermont (maybe…) I mean hes gotta be there for reasons other than commic relief..

30 naufilNo Gravatar April 1, 2007 at 11:06 am

i think lv will not die, and harry will die in some complexed situation. instead lv will be subjected to the punishment i the room of mynistries. as jk rowling has told that the room has such energy that sometimes it is the most wonderful thing and a great subject to study and sometimes it is so horrible that no one can bear it. and this energy harry posses in large and lv have no idea about

31 LaurenNo Gravatar April 3, 2007 at 12:57 pm

I think Dumbledore will continue to help Harry and either he is not really dead or he will be one of the portraits in the Head masters office like all the headmasters in thew past and I think Harry Might Die but if he does He who must not be named will 2

32 LaurenNo Gravatar April 3, 2007 at 12:58 pm

Also every one knows that Harry is a horcrux right?

33 seriously_blackNo Gravatar April 3, 2007 at 4:16 pm

“Also every one knows that Harry is a horcrux right?”

No, in fact none of us *knows* that, and many of us are inclined to doubt it.

There are some interesting arguments either way – but there is a significant lack of compelling evidence for the theory.

The arguments are multifarious and there are too many of them to cite here. However articles such as RedSparks’ “For Neither Can Live While the Other Survives” over at mugglenet.com touch on some of the more obvious reasons. Not to mention the extensive “Is Harry a Horcrux?” thread right here on swordofgryffindor.com in which many of the pros and cons are examined.

It is by no means a fortgone conclusion. However if you have a strong view, rather than posting it here, why not go and add your view to the thread which is devoted to the subject. ;)

34 rickz02No Gravatar April 5, 2007 at 9:59 pm

If harry is a horcrux then he should kill himself to defeat Voldemort, right? Then the prophecy must be disobeyed since it said that one should be ended by the other, isn’t it?

35 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar April 6, 2007 at 8:22 am

rick, check the post on this site, “Is Harry a Horcrux,” where that question has been dealt with multiple times.

36 ReyhanNo Gravatar April 6, 2007 at 10:55 am

Travis, I sent a comment to this post late last night, and it disappeared without a trace. I rewrote it and sent it again, and again, it didn’t appear in the comments. Any trace at your end?

37 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar April 6, 2007 at 11:22 am

Reyhan, not a trace. Every once in a while, we have a comment issue here. Why don’t you send me the comment via E-Owl, and I’ll post it for you?

38 ReyhanNo Gravatar April 6, 2007 at 3:40 pm

This is the third time I’m trying to post this comment, so I should be pretty good at it.

I wanted to take the thread back to the title of book seven: Deathly Hallows.

I was intrigued by the possibility that Hallows refers to the four elements associated with the Holy Grail in Arthurian legend, as per Cory in #9 (see above) and Travis (also above). Not so much for itself, but because I have an alternate explanation and I wanted to see how well the Grail association fit.

As Cory said, the four elememts are the sword/dagger, the lance/spear (or baton or wand), the cup, and the coin/dish/pentacle (or platter or chess board or stone chair). As you can see, there are many interpretations of three of the four elements. As well, the first two are considered masculine elements, and the last two are considered feminine.

Cory associates the four elements with four of the Horcruxes in the following manner:
sword/dagger: Gryffindor
baton/wand: Ravenclaw
cup: Hufflepuff
pentacle: Slytherin

One problem with this interpretation is that the “genders” of the four elements don’t match the genders of the four founders. It is not impossible that a female founder should be associated with a “masculine” element and a male founder with a “feminine” element. But in my opinion, it’s unlikely.

I believe instead that Hallows should be translated in the secondary NODE way: noun (archaic) a saint of holy person.

Given this interpretation, and looking at the founders of Hogwarts as the patron “saints” of each of the houses, then the Hallows of the title are nothing more than the four founders.

I have further musings on the interpretation of the word Deathly, but I’ll wait to see if this one gets through before I commit more words to the electronic gods.

39 seriously_blackNo Gravatar April 11, 2007 at 2:27 am

Reyhan, interesting comments and analysis.

One thing that leads me away from the idea that Hallows may refer to people rather than to a place, is the coupling with the word “Deathly”:

adj.
1. causing death; deadly; fatal.
2. like death.
3. Poetic. of death.

Flowery poetic diction aside, it doesn’t generally mean the same thing as “dead”. And if JKR had simply wanted to convey that these persons are deceased, using “deathly” seems both redundant and contrived. She might more aptly have called them “dead hallows” – or just “hallows” – since saints are generally understood to be deceased.

So while I do like the idea that there may be some association with the founders themselves, the way the title is constructed nevertheless makes me lean towards thinking of the hallows as a place (or maybe a thing or things) rather than a person or persons.

40 cleverly stupidNo Gravatar April 13, 2007 at 2:59 pm

Well…I beleave that Dumbldor is still alive! I think that Snape and him came up with some sort of plan or something.Of course I know it sounds kind of stupid and all, but it’s not entirly imposeble is it? Dumbldore is supost to be the GREATEST wizzard…so you do the math.

41 ReyhanNo Gravatar April 13, 2007 at 5:56 pm

S_B, interesting that you should pick up on the various meanings of “Deathly”.

I chose the first interpretation: causing death, deadly, fatal. Pair that with the interpretation of “Hallows” as “saints”, then it creates the impression that the founders are not benign or even inert, but quite likely to be dangerous. Add to that the assumption that the founders are to be found on the other side of the veil, then the conclusion I reach is that any trip to the other side will be fraught with menace.

Where I’m really going with this – and this is pure conjecture – is that we might be looking a confrontation of some sorts which will take place at another level of reality. It might involve Harry. And even more interestingly, it might involve Snake Eyes. I would dearly love to see the Heir of Slytherin meet Slytherin.

Again, all this is the purest conjecture, based on two flimsy pieces of “evidence”: the interpretation I’ve chosen to put on the title of the 7th book, and the cover of the US edition, which to me looks like an otherworldly arena.

42 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar April 13, 2007 at 11:16 pm

cleverly stupid (nice name), it is indeed entirely impossible for Dumbledore to still be alive, because Rowling said specifically in an interview, “Dumbledore is definitely dead.” That about settles it.

43 chitNo Gravatar April 16, 2007 at 1:29 pm

you all are stupid and tell yourslves fans of harry potter

if you want to know contact me on my e-mail address which is geniuschit@yahoo.co.uk

44 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar April 16, 2007 at 2:01 pm

I don’t know what on earth that statement means, but since you called us all stupid, I’ll just leave your email address sitting right there on the comments, so that the thousands upon thousands of spammers who come by here will have free access to it.

:)

45 SiriNo Gravatar April 18, 2007 at 2:03 pm

Hello cleverly stupid and others,

I’m sure, DD is dead. Snape had sworn the Unbreakable Vow, so there was no other possibility for him then to kill DD. But I like the idea, that DD lives in his pictures and helps Harry. Maybe, Harry gets a picture with him all the time, maybe he comes in places, where are hanging portraits of DD on the walls.
I have a theory about Snape: I’m sure he will die for Harry at the end. I think it could happen in this way: Harry meets Snape in the hidden place, where LV is waiting for him (a ruin, a castle, maybe Hogwarts, maybe the ministry…). Harry fights Snape, who tries to explain, that he is on Harry’s side. LV comes, wants to kill Harry, but in the last moment Snape safes Harry and dies himself, so Harry has his chance to kill LV. Sounds good? Snape can’t be so evil: He was from the first book one of the most interesting characters, because it was never clear, to which side he belongs. If finally comes out, that he is really a Death Eater, it would be just boring.
I like the Harry-is-Horcrux-theory, too, and I think you were right: The hallows are the four artefacts of the founders and Harry’s scar will be the last horcrux. Looks perfect to me!

46 AceNo Gravatar April 22, 2007 at 9:09 pm

I have many questions left…
If you guys would care to answer them i would be very grateful.
First off, does anyone have any isea who R.A.B is? I believe its sirius’s brother, but i have no evidence of that. Secondly, will harry at any point return to hogwart because as we all recall on the side of each book is a year # and if he doesnt go to hogwarts, can the book have year 7 written on its spine? Another question is that how will harry ven get close to any of the horcrxes? Remembering back to the 6th book, he could barely tell how DD found the entrance to the cave. He barely knows enough about how to do any advance magic. Another idea i had was when everyone (including myself) was talking about harry killing LV and other people (good people) killing others. Does harry have the guts to use avada kedavra on a human- wont he be arrested? Also Hermione would NEVER use one of the illegal curses, although i believe neville will because he has never been at all brave yet he was put into Griffindor. the final question i have is that will harry somehow invent a charm that will deflect or return the AK curse? Because i am pretty confident that LV doesnt have that bad aim and harry cant duel for his life. LOL please resond THX!!

47 AceNo Gravatar April 23, 2007 at 6:22 pm

ANother couple of ideas ive had (and stolen)
1. Snape is the son of Voldermort and only him and Dumbledore and one other person know this. this would make a lot of sense because once again Riddle was a “stud’ and Eileen Prince was a nerdy girl. He could have promised to marry her, but instead impregnated her and left her as an evil practical joke. I wouldnt put it past him.
2. Crookshanks is an animalgus. He could either be James Potter himself or he could be Regalus Black. Before i explain this, let me tell you what i think we havent been told. When LV killed lily and james, James may have made a horcrux at the time. (from what we read in book 5 he was and had some dark and evil thoughts in his mind and definetly fell victim to feelings such as jealousy and hatred.) well anyway, snape ran into the house and felt a great shock. His father was dead. He could not go to any dark wizard and tell them he was his father, and along with that the love of his life and his lifes rival were lying dead on the floor. All he could see was a baby, like him who grew up without a home and had to sulk in hogwarts for he had a miserable life. He wanted to prevent this from happening and so took him to Dumbldore. He then cried out and told dumbledore everything he had exp=erienced and his true relations with LV. DD trusts him not because he deems him truly trustworthy, but because he has not seen human suffering like this before. This is why he didnt let snape teach DADA and kept a decent eye on him. ALso, he has given snape an overinflated sense of importance so he believes himself not to be a worthless tool as he undoubtebly was when he was with LV.
3. This is NOT an idea for the book but this would be really cool. If JKR had chosen to not make this book the last, she could heavily continue the series. This can be done by ending the book with the idea that LV was being controlled by the imperius curse and the truly dark wizard was someone else… (if it were up to me, it would be dumbledore’s brother or James potter) And so harry must find the more powerful wizard and face him.
PLEEEEEEEAAAAZ REPLY!!!

48 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar April 24, 2007 at 2:14 pm

More comment difficulties. This one comes from Reyhan in response to Ace:

Ace, Voldemort has never shown the slightest interest in a relationship with anyone which doesn’t serve his own ends. Therefore, the chances of him fathering a child are very remote. JKR has also shot down similar speculations, saying people had been watching too much Star Wars.

Also, the scenario you outlined about Snape taking Harry to Dumbledore doesn’t fit with what we’ve read about Hagrid bringing Harry to Dumbledore (at #4, Privet Lane) after talking to Sirius, who did want to take him, and who lent Hagrid his motorbike.

As well, there is no evidence whatsoever that Crookshanks is an animagus, except for his unusual intelligence. And that is explained by him being part-Kneazle (large, magical cat-like creatures). If he were an animagus, that fact would almost certainly have emerged back when he was hanging out with Padfoot in PoA.

As for your last idea, I’m sure other writers will want to continue the series; this may help explain why JKR has promised us a chapter telling us what’s going to happen to the remaining characters, and why she has toyed with the idea of killing Harry.

49 AceNo Gravatar April 26, 2007 at 9:55 pm

Hey you guys just thought i’d drop anotherthing ive been dead curious about…
Which house was Dumbledore in??? I think he was in hufflepuff, any ideas???

50 seriously_blackNo Gravatar April 27, 2007 at 2:45 am

Ace,
Since Dumbledore has the Sword of Gryffindor in his posession, I think it’s reasonable to suppose that that’s where his affiliations lie.

Perhaps we’ll find out in book 7. However I’d be mildly surprised if it turned out to be Hufflepuff. ;?

51 korg20000bcNo Gravatar April 27, 2007 at 6:52 am

I also think Dunmbledore was a Gryffindor. He has the sword, his office( I seem to recall) had red and gold furnishings and Gryphon door-knockers. That may not mean a great deal as Gryphons are common heraldric symbols. (or was it lion knockers…?)

I think Dumbledore’s awarding of points to Neville for courageously standing up to the trio speaks loudly that he is a Griffindor.

Also as Godric was the antithesis to Slytherin so Dumbledore was to Voldemort. Has the right symmetry.

Matthew

52 AceNo Gravatar April 27, 2007 at 9:09 pm

Ok last couple of questions…
First lemme explain why DD could be from hufflepuff: In an interview, JK rowling said that in the 7th book, “Hufflepuffs will have their day” if anyone else has a translation for that please post it.
Another curiousity of mine is that why did harry’s weird dreams and insights into LV cease in book 6? They just faded away. Also, will harry return to hogwarts? I think he will because hes blind and useless without DD’s advice and DD will be a portrait wont he? Lastly, does anyone but me think that Harry will discover hogwarts most inner secrets and find out the true hidden things in the castle? Also i have an eerie therory that harry will learn how to go beyond that arc to the world of the dead and return back to the real world alive (perhaps with his parents??) Any ideas? Please respond and if u think im an idiot or crazy in any way please state it!! LOL

53 ReyhanNo Gravatar April 28, 2007 at 2:54 am

It would be rude to call anyone bad names; this is a fairly well-mannered site.

Responding to your comments in the order that you presented them:

As far as I understand it, the House of Hufflepuff is built on a principle of acceptance, tolerance and equality. Part of what is wrong with the wizard world right now is the perception that some creatures are better than others and that some Houses are superior to others. There is in fact a lot of prejudice or racism going around. If all wizards were to lay down their prejudices and take up the values of Hufflepuff and live as brothers (and sisters) wouldn’t the world be a better place?

I think Harry’s dreams and sensations involving Voldemort ceased as of the end of OotP because he exorcised Voldemort during the battle at the Ministry and now Voldemort can’t possess him. He did this by wanting to die.

About whether Harry will return to Hogwarts, I don’t think so. I think he’s outgrown school. Besides, all the most interesting people are either dead (Dumbledore), quit (Lupin) or fled (Snape). I can’t see Hogwarts having the same fascination as it did before. I know that others disagree.

There are many ways of communicating with Dumbledore besides his portrait in the Headmaster’s office. Walking through the veil in the Chamber of Death at the Ministry would be one way. Fawkes or Prongs would be two other ways.

54 korg20000bcNo Gravatar April 28, 2007 at 5:05 am

Reyhan,
I think you’re wrong that Harry exercised Voldemort by wanting to die. I think it was the feelings of love he had for Sirius and that he’d get to see him again IF he died that made him uninhabitable to Voldemort

Matthew

55 ChristinaNo Gravatar April 28, 2007 at 8:25 am

Korg, I agree with you that the reason that LV couldn’t stand to inhabit Harry’s body was because of his love for Sirius. I thought it was profound, and foreshadowing on JKR’s part.

And I am almost positive that DD was in Gryffindor. I think Hermione mentions reading it in “Hogwarts: A History”. The thing I think we need to understand is that the House that people are placed in do not necessarily relect the qualities that WE see in them. If that were the case, then Hermione would have certainly been put in Ravenclaw and Neville would DEFINITELY not be in Gryffindor, being that it is for those courageous and brave. But the Sorting Hat sees the true person and what they are CAPABLE of.

56 korg20000bcNo Gravatar April 28, 2007 at 8:53 am

I often think about the sorting and the characters of the stories. The sorting hat tells us that Gryffindor valued courage and bravery above all else. Rowling also says she values these qualities.
I went the other way from you, Christina. I took that fact that Neville and Hermione were in Gryffindor to be indicative of courage being their defining trait, though perhaps buried deep.

I also thought that does the sorting hat divide the years students in quarters? Does it have to fill a quota of students for each house? I mean if a group of particularly brave students came through one year would Gryffindor have all of them?

Matthew

57 ReyhanNo Gravatar April 28, 2007 at 10:29 am

I should have said, Harry self-exorcised Voldemort by not being afraid to die, because of his love for Sirius. And yes, I do think that was a very significant act of foreshadowing for what will happen in the last book.

58 VienzaeqielNo Gravatar April 29, 2007 at 7:18 am

i think hallow will not mean holy but will refer to “ghost: “or ghost-like”

59 AceNo Gravatar April 30, 2007 at 9:19 pm

What do you guys think about the idea that fawkes is going to help harry finish LV? I believe this because obviously they both use his feather for a wand, and he should be fully capable of strengthening them or vica versa. Along with that, music has always been a sullen theme but a very definitive on for JKR. I think that DD believes that all natural things are more powerful than magic. (such as music, love, passion etc.) Harry will definetly NOT be accompanied by friends when he fights LV, because on the cover of the US book, it shows HP & LV duking it out surrounded by DEs. Also, on t6he cover of the Uk book Ron is weinding GG sword? any ideas on that? I think that LV tried to kill off all the PURE BLOODED desendants of the 4 founders (except slytherin). He finished off James potter (likely GG), That Smith woman (HH) and Olivander (RR) oh and by the way could someone post all the founders full names plz, i 4got Ravenclaws THX!!!! And another odd thing i found was that Helga Hufflepuff has the only normal first name. Is it a coincidence that she is the one to accept the left over students after the three selective ones??? Anyone have ideas?????

60 MargaretNo Gravatar April 30, 2007 at 11:02 pm

I was reading something about JKRowling the other day that referred to the time period during which she was choosing the title. After she came up with the final title: HP and the Deathly Hallows, she mentioned that earlier she had almost hit on a title but was “one vowel and a couple of consonants off” or something very close to that. I’ve looked for where I read that quote but can’t find it right now…anyway one vowel and a couple of consonants leave “hall”. Very interesting to me. Great Hall or Hall of Prophecy. Any other halls?

anyone else run across this same post?

61 ReyhanNo Gravatar April 30, 2007 at 11:39 pm

Ace, the first names of the founders are Godric, Salazar, Rowena and Helga. Wikipedia would have also answered this question, as would have a vist to many other sites on the Internet.

Fawkes did help Harry finish off the basilisk in CoS, so it’s possible that he will help Harry again, although probably not in exactly the same way, because that would be too predictable.

Conventional wisdom says that it’s not Ron but a house-elf (either Dobby or Kreacher) who is wielding the sword on the book cover.

No evidence that Voldemort is trying to kill off purebloods. Also, his murders seem purposeful, or instrumental, rather then ideological. I don’t think he’d kill someone just because they were a pureblood. Also, I don’t think James Potter can be a descendant of Gryffindor because JKR has said Harry (his son) is not the heir of Gryffindor. And I don’t know if there is any evidence linking Ollivander to Ravenclaw.

Of late, I’ve started thinking that Helga Hufflepuff’s generous acceptance into her house of any wizard, regardless of blood, talent or personality, makes her the perfect counterpoint to the discrimination and bigotry demonstrated overtly by Slytherin and covertly by the other two houses. Her name may be ordinary, but her heart seems truly extraordinary.

62 seriously_blackNo Gravatar May 1, 2007 at 1:54 am

Magic is by definition, a power *over* natural things.

There are many theories about the shadowy figures in the background on the GrandPre DH cover – and most folk do not seem to think they’re meant to be death eaters.

Ron is not holding a Sword on the UK cover. It’s being held by a small creature (elf or goblin, hard to be sure) who is *behind* Ron. Moreover while it is *probably* the Sword of Gryffindor, we don’t yet know that for certain (unless you’d like to theorize that there is only one jewel-encrusted sword in existence).

Rowling has indicated that Harry is *not* a descendant of Godric Gryffindor, so James could not be either. That aside, we have been given quite plausible reasons why LV killed James Potter, which has nothing to do with a quest against pure bloods – and we’ve been told in the books that his quest was against *non* pure-bloods.

The Founders were Godric, Helga, Rowena and Salazar. It may interest you to know that they are *all* “normal” first names in some parts of the world and in some times (and these people were supposed to have lived in medieval times). The fact that they’re apparently not “normal” in 2007 your particular burrough seems unlikely to be relevant.

63 AceNo Gravatar May 3, 2007 at 9:27 pm

Ok heres a fairly odd question… How do you guys think harry will kill LV or anyone else in the book? I dont think he has the guts or the hatred to use Crucio or Avada kedavra. he might imperius someone else to do it for him… perhaps Draco Malfoy or even better… BELLATRIX *revenge*. Do you think Draco will team up with harry? What about snape? Can wizards in the frames in the headmistress’ office cast spells?? They should be able to since they have wands and can mutter incantations right?? Well please respond.Lastly, there is a misprint in book 6, did anyone else spot it? Not a spelling mistake, or grammar error, but an actual slip up by JKR!!!!!

64 ReyhanNo Gravatar May 3, 2007 at 10:18 pm

I don’t think Harry is going to kill anyone. It’s not a matter of guts (he has lots) or hatred (enough of that too). It’s a matter of knowing that killing is wrong. The only person I think he might be tempted to kill is Snape, and that will probably be his biggest test.

He might kill the snake though. I don’t think he would look at that as an ethical dilemma.

Getting someone to do your dirty work is just as bad as doing it yourself, so I doubt that he would get somoene else to kill anyone.

I think that events will unfold in a way that involves many others besides Harry. I don’t think he will team up with anyone except his natural allies, the ones he’s fought with already: Dumbledore’s Army and the Order.

The wizards in the frames are like echoes, or recordings, of the originals. I notice that they can watch and hear and react and comment, but they don’t initiate action.

Slip up?

65 BoggartNo Gravatar May 4, 2007 at 1:00 am

I actually find the idea of Draco and Harry teaming up very attractive, but as I like the “Malfoy is a werewolf” theory i dont know what to think anymore ;)

66 korg20000bcNo Gravatar May 4, 2007 at 4:37 am

Reyhan,
I disagree that killing is wrong. I think murder is very, very wrong. But the slaying of a great evil is no wrong. We see this time and time again in myth and legend and real-life.

For instance, Gandalf gave Frodo a gentle earfull about his regret that Bilbo didn’t slay Gollum when he had the chance (a lesson that Frodo learned as shown by his dealing with Saruman in The Shire). But, he didn’t bat an eyelid about killing the Balrog, multiple orcs, goblins, wargs and wolves, evil men and Sauron of course.

I think you may be correct about Harry not having to kill in the final book. Although… He has to vanquish Voldemort. Maybe drag him through the portal.

Matthew

67 ReyhanNo Gravatar May 4, 2007 at 10:09 am

Matthew, I agree that we have to stop people from harming and killing others. Ergo, Voldemort has to be stopped. Clear so far. But if taking a life is wrong, then isn’t killing Voldemort wrong as well?

Dumbledore talks about how your soul is split when you take a life. Does your soul stay intact if the life you take is of someone like Voldemort, or Fenrir Grayback? Who decides?

In our world, we have the advocates and opponents of capital punishment. I am definitely an opponent. This does not mean I believe evil people should be allowed to remain free where they can continue to harm others.

War is a much bigger dilemma. I know it’s sometimes necessary, and there are wars I would fight in without question, but I don’t think anyone survives a war without being damaged, either physically or emotionally.

I can see several outcomes for Voldemort which would leave Harry’s soul intact. Someone else (my money’s on Snape who’s already lost his claim to innocence) could take him out. This would preserve Harry’s soul, take care of the problem, and not force the author to grapple with the moral dilemma.

I like your suggestion: Harry could drag or push Voldemort through the portal; I’m pretty sure there are lots of spirits and Hallows and whatnot quite ready to destroy him. How about this? Wormtail pushes Voldemort through the portal after Voldemort takes back his shiny new silver hand?

Or Harry could destroy the remaining Horcruxes, and then the infusion of Evans/Potter blood could destroy Voldemort from within. I like that best, because he would die because he couldn’t handle the essence of “goodness” and he would die because of his own actions.

As for Gandalf’s preaching to Frodo, well, that doesn’t bear close scrutiny. There’s something called instrumental violence – when you use violence in order to meet your needs. I think Gandalf was guilty of instrumental mercy – when you have mercy on someone because you need them to do something for you later on. I’m not objecting to how he used Gollum (and of course Frodo and Sam and everybody else), that was his job. But don’t call it mercy.

I have higher expectations of Dumbledore, who I believe is interested in helping people and finding the good in the most miserable sinner, because he believes that is the right thing.

68 korg20000bcNo Gravatar May 4, 2007 at 6:39 pm

You are, of course, assuming that Dumbledore did not kill Grindlewald when he defeated him in 1945.

I see murder as wrong. I would define it differently from killing. I would still say that is still has a great price to pay. The damage is still done but that in itself becomes a sacrifice. Healing comes in time.

For some reason I had an image in my head of Hagrid giving Voldemort a bear-hug and plunging through the portal.

I’m not with you on your point that the Gandalf example doesn’t bear close scrutiny. Gandalf did NOT have mercy on Gollum just because he needed hime to do something for him. That’d be a very poor reading of Tolkien. Even though the example I used was Bilbo’s mercy, Gandalf encouraged the wood elves not to slay Gollum because he felt that Gollum still had some part to play -for good OR ill- and that there was still hope for his healing and redemption. He had to think this was for the sake of Bilbo and Frodo. He knew they were being damaged by The Ring but believed that there was healing for them also. Your comment regarding “instrumental mercy” cannot be correct. And you’ll excuse me if I do call it mercy.

I am a little surprised by your expectiong higher things from Dumbledore. First, he’s dead. Second, Gandalf and Dumbledore seem interchangable in their outlook in the above example.

Matthew

69 AceNo Gravatar May 4, 2007 at 10:26 pm

Actually i believe that the title also suggests that harry is going to put Lv in a place or do something to him that will prove worse than death just to show LV that there are infact much more painful things than death and that the power to love saves hime from some of these things while it draws him to others. I think that he will put him in a place full of love and postitivity that Lv will be tormented by the powers of untarnished souls. Ideas??

70 AceNo Gravatar May 4, 2007 at 10:31 pm

Anyone lse see the wrong word/name choice JKR used???? (Book 6) tell me if anyone else found it

71 ReyhanNo Gravatar May 4, 2007 at 11:03 pm

Matthew, I can not deny that Dumbledore is, in fact, dead. But that he will continue to play a role in events to come, and that his influence will be as powerful in death as ever it was in life, I have no doubt. In fact, only when there is no one left at Hogwarts who is loyal to his name, etc. etc.

Speaking of whom, killing one or many evil wizards would not take away from the truth of Dumbledore’s words. It might even add more poignancy to his words, if he spoke as someone whose own soul was fragmanted, no matter how reluctantly.

Gandalf and Dumbledore interchangeable? Well, plotwise, perhaps (although I hope that the disastrous trust Gandalf places in Saruman won’t prove to be reflected in the trust Dumbledore has placed in Snape !) But JKR’s sensibility is very different from Tolkien’s. She may not be a “great” writer, but her characters are real people. I wouldn’t say the same of Tolkien’s noble stick figures.

72 MargaretNo Gravatar May 4, 2007 at 11:39 pm

Ace, can’t you just tell us?

73 MargaretNo Gravatar May 4, 2007 at 11:42 pm

Matthew, I was thinking a while back that the whole emergence of Voldemort in the first place could be traced back to Grindelwald..it occurred to me because of the Easter European pronunciation of the name: GrindelVald….Vald emort? Perhaps Grindelwald also created some Horcruxes and use poor Tom Riddle in the way Voldmort used Harry…to create for himself a new body/new identity?

74 MargaretNo Gravatar May 4, 2007 at 11:42 pm

not Easter European, Eastern European…geesh.

75 AceNo Gravatar May 5, 2007 at 5:27 pm

I was wondering…(2 things) if the deathly hallows just merely either stand for the horcruxes or a group of people. if you think about it, all of rowling’s books have had fairly obvious names. the sorcerers stone, chamber of secrets, prisoner of azkaban, goblet of fire, order of the pheonix and half blood prince. They all refer ro people or items, nothing very deep. The second thing i was wondering was that why exactly is the group called order of the PHEONIX? why pheonix? does it refer just simply to fawkes or does it refer to the role of the pheonix in the book, to preserve love heal the wounded (not ripped) soul and to rejuvinate courage and bring out the best in people or is fawkes more than he appears to be? O and BTW if u kill someone, your soul doesn not get ripped apart. ONLY if you use the spell to rip it. Killing only makes it rippable like metal is to heat.

76 MiaNo Gravatar May 26, 2007 at 4:09 pm

According to Mugglenet, Rowling has provided an alternate title for foreign translators “Harry Potter and the Relics of Death”, since there is no equivalent to “Hallows” in other languages. The Swedish title will officially be “Harry Potter och Dödsrelikerna”. The German title hasn’t been published yet, but it seems to indicate that the “Hallows” are indeed items.

77 Alaa ghosnNo Gravatar May 28, 2007 at 12:16 pm

I suggest that Harry will see his old godfather by going into the veil which is in ministry of order,he will go in and speak with them, I think he will be accompanied by Ron, Hermine, Loony, and Neville.They will haunt for the horcruxes, and of course one will get serously injured since the tittle is “The Deathly Hallow”.And I think it will be Neville. Anyway I am such a fan for Harry Potter. Can’t wait for it to come out in my country Lebanon.

78 PipNo Gravatar May 28, 2007 at 1:18 pm

to Alaa ghosn

I agree Harry will see Sirius at some point. But I think Luna may be the one that gets seriously injured or killed. I also believe that the Deathly Hallows may refer to the founders of Hogwarts. But I’ve been known to be wrong about many things.

Welcome to the fold. I’m new here, too. Hope to see more opinions from you. It’s fun. Thanks to our host!

79 MartinNo Gravatar May 28, 2007 at 3:58 pm

Mia,

The name Hogwarts Hallows was copyrighted. It could be just a fake title, but what if Hogwarts Hallows and Deathly are close in the meaning? With combination of alternate title you have found it would have been Hogwarts relics of death. Such a tilte could meant horcruxes who belonged to Hogwarts founders once.

But what if there is different meaning: relic of death that are at Hogwarts.

80 MiaNo Gravatar May 28, 2007 at 5:06 pm

Martin, yes, I think there may be a link between the “Hallows” and Hogwarts and it’s founders. Even Dumbledore once said that he didn’t know all of the school’s secrets… And then we have the connection between Godric Gryffindor and Godric’s Hollow (Hollow/ Hallow?) Since “Hallows” is an old word, it’s perhaps linked to the history of those two places. “Relics of Death” is almost as cryptic as “Deathly Hallows”, and I don’t have any idea what it means, yet.

The parallel to the Hallows of the Arthurian legend, which Travis referred to in his post, seems to be a good guess, though.

81 joeNo Gravatar May 29, 2007 at 7:59 pm

ACE what is the slip up that JKR made in the 6th book

82 joeNo Gravatar May 29, 2007 at 7:59 pm

?????????????????????????????????????????
REPLY PLEEEEEZ

83 seriously_blackNo Gravatar May 30, 2007 at 8:46 am

While the alternative title is still intriguing, it does seem to narrow the definition, if not shut down a number of the directions of speculation here and elsewhere.

I confess that my hunch on this was that the Deathly Hallows might be a place, whereas as Mia says, it now seems that the hallows are “things” or items.

In light of that, my new guess is that the many objects in the picture on the UK cover (helmet, breast-plate, gems etc may be the hallows. Just a WAG.

84 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar May 30, 2007 at 8:52 am

Yes, this is an interesting development. It does suggest that the link to the Arthurian Hallows is indeed the way to go.

85 ReyhanNo Gravatar May 30, 2007 at 9:11 am

I think their significance is still through the link to the four houses of Hogwarts, though.

86 Alaa ghosnNo Gravatar May 30, 2007 at 12:48 pm

TNX pip

I seem to recall that when loony feel, both harry and loony both heard noises from the viel and none of the others could hear the noise.Plus in year 2 harry and loony only saw the creatures that pulled the caridges.so harry must remember the viel and go to see dumbuldore and SB and they will give them advice with the mirror that serious black gave to Harry, but the mirror
is broken, yet Hermine could use reparo to fix it.

So hope to get your opinion…

87 Alaa ghosnNo Gravatar May 31, 2007 at 11:33 am

To everyone,

Maybe Hallows means tasks like the cave they went to in year 6, they had to get through LV maze. and since you have a chance in dieing in them so J.K.R put the tittle “Deathly Hallows”.

88 Alaa ghosnNo Gravatar June 3, 2007 at 4:57 am

Where are u??????????????????????????????????

89 joeNo Gravatar June 4, 2007 at 3:10 pm

What Is The Slip Up?????????

90 marconiNo Gravatar June 8, 2007 at 4:36 am

i hv hp part 7 pdf version

91 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar June 8, 2007 at 8:19 am

marconi, no, you don’t. There’s a fake version of book 7 circulating in pdf format. It’s not the real thing.

92 NICKNo Gravatar June 11, 2007 at 9:16 am

Harry can’t die because JKR said that if she ever got bored, she would go back and write Harry Potter books

93 AceNo Gravatar June 14, 2007 at 8:03 am

On page 188, Slughorn says, One tiny bottle of Felix Felicis enough for twelve hours’ luck. From dusk til’ dawn, you will be lucky in everything you attempt.
But then on page 476, Harry says, “I don’t reckon I’ll need all of it, not twenty-four hours’ worth

94 AceNo Gravatar June 14, 2007 at 8:03 am

thats the slip up

95 marconiNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 4:16 am

Travis Prinzi hw can u b so sure. i think so coz it contain cheap scene. does da 1 u hv starts like this
” Chapter One
Secrets Unraveled
Harry slowly raised his head and stared morosely at the familiar visage
of number four, Privet Drive. What had already been a horrible day was
rapidly getting worse. Not only did he have to appear unannounced on
the Dursleys’ doorstep (something he knew they’d have no problem
expressing their displeasure over), but he’d also have to tell them
that two other freaks would be joining him this afternoon. The corner
of Harry’s mouth twitched humorlessly as he envisioned how they’d take
the news.”

96 korg20000bcNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 5:03 am

Sounds like a cheap knock-off.

Marconi, can you please stop using cell-phone abbreviations?

Thankyou

Matthew

97 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 7:58 am

marconi, I’m so sure because it’s a known fact that the real book has not been leaked and that there is a pdf in circulation that is purportedly DH, but it’s a fake.

I agree with Matthew, by the way – it doesn’t even sound like Rowling.

98 ReyhanNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 10:39 am

The sentence structure is completely unlike JKR. She does not start her sentences with clauses: “not only did he have to appear unanounced on the Dursleys’ doorstop …” She does not put clauses into brackets: “(something she knew they’d have no problem expressing their displeasure over)”. No one’s mouth ever “twitches humourlessly”, Harry does not stare “morosely” and he does not “envision”. And “freaks” is not in her vocabulary. While Stephen King has said JKR never met an adjective she didn’t like, this particular writer seems to have an inordinate liking for adverbs.

99 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 10:41 am

Actually, I think King said JKR never met an adverb she didn’t like.

100 ReyhanNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 10:51 am

Right you are Travis, he did say adverbs, not adjectives. But he was wrong: the cheap imitation copy features quite a few adverbs JKR doesn’t use.

101 MartinNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 4:30 pm

I did not read the imatation and I do not inted to. Hovewer the writer might work out something. I wonder if you could tell me what were horcruxes and what was the place and result of final battle.

102 PipNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 4:46 pm

Oh, no spoilers, please…speculation only. Even if it is a fake copy (and I’m sure it is), I don’t want to see or hear it from it.

I would wager most of those posting on this site feel the same.

103 MiaNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 5:15 pm

I looked it up, it’s a Fan Fiction called “The Seventh Horcrux” that has been renamed and circulated, which is just annoying and unfair to the author. There are no spoilers, it’s been published some time ago, anyone who’s interested in the story can read it legitimately under the real title.

104 PipNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 6:04 pm

Thanks, Mia.

105 ReyhanNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 6:09 pm

Something tells me things are going to get pretty ugly out there the closer we get to July 21st.

Not sure what we can do about it, although combating disinformation with the facts (thanks, Mia) is helpful.

106 AvidfanNo Gravatar June 15, 2007 at 11:52 pm

Hey there! I’m new to this thread, but I just finished Book 6 for the umpteenth time in anticipation for the Book 7 release. I’m desperate to talk Harry Potter, so here goes (and I apologize if some of this has already been discussed):

- I’m leaning more toward “Hallows” signifying the horcruxes rather than a place b/c of “Hallows” being plural.

- JKR must tie up loose ends, so I’m thinking somehow the following will be major factors in the plot: 2-way mirror and the veil (a horizontal version of the U.S. cover art actually has curtains framing the image…connection?); Hogwarts itself (there are more school mysteries yet to be revealed, so some of the book must take place at the school I’m thinking); the disappearances, not determined deaths, of some Hogsmeade shop owners such as Olivander; why Harry’s scar is thunderbolt-shaped (and why it disappears, as the purported last line in Book 7 suggests); the phoenix’s flight at Dumbledore’s funeral (yes, he’s dead, but she wouldn’t have given the phoenix imagery unless it had meaning); and Aunt Petunia…to name a few.

- I also think that R.A.B. will not be the actual initials of an individual’s name b/c that would be too obvious, but rather a nickname or self-proclaimed title (such as Half Blood Prince) perhaps?

- Since love is the ultimate force that has been Harry’s greatest source of protection and also his greatest source of power, I don’t think he will ultimately use an unforgivable curse to kill LV. Dumbledore says time and time again that it’s LV’s greatest weakness, so I think his inability to and underestimation of love will be his demise. No way can Harry overcome LV with only his wizarding skills, nor should he be able to (you don’t fight fire with fire – you fight fire with water!).

- Interesting tidbits about the U.S. Book 7 cover art…Neither LV or HP are wielding wands, and they are both looking up at something, not facing each other. Also, they’re both wearing brown robes. Usually, Harry’s in black robes or plain clothes. It also looks like Harry’s wearing some kind of pendant or talisman around his neck which is pretty big, if you look closely. Maybe it’s the Slytherin locket, but I would think he would have that in his pocket if he’s toting it around. I also could be reading too much into the talisman aspect, but jeez, he’ll need something a l’il extra to defeat LV!

OK, I’ll shut up now.

107 PipNo Gravatar June 16, 2007 at 1:29 am

Welcome, Avid Fan! I’ve been relishing this HP site for about a month. I’ve truly enjoyed the heated debates, brilliant theories and food for thought provided by our host and other participants. Jump in and enjoy!

108 MartinNo Gravatar June 16, 2007 at 3:32 am

Mia,

You are quite right. I it is absolutely unfair to the writer to spread her fun fiction as the book seven. Anyway I guess the book might be written rather well: The book title indicates she managed to work out something and people had to check adjective and adverbs to recognize it is not Rowling’s writing. I am not going to read the book now. I if did so, the book could fluent my posting and I respect people who do not want information from the book to appear on this chat. I have never been interested in spoilers and I also think there is lot to discuss.

109 MiaNo Gravatar June 16, 2007 at 11:29 am

Martin, it’s not a book, it’s just a story that’s been published on several HP-sites already. And I think it’s clearly recognizable as a fan fiction, without checking the adverbs. It seems to be well thought out and well written, but why on earth people passed it of for book 7 belongs in the department of mysteries.

110 BoggartNo Gravatar June 16, 2007 at 3:41 pm

Mia, just how long is this fanfiction?

111 MariaNo Gravatar June 16, 2007 at 11:48 pm

I think Hallows has to do with All Hallows Eve on which Lily and James died. ‘Deathly Hallows’ fits with my theory I think.

112 AceNo Gravatar June 17, 2007 at 2:33 am

Ive been wondering. What if harry get the items from the 4 founders (locket sword, cup and random ravencalw item) and unlocks the powers attributed in each one to destroy voldemort. Hes obviously not a very skilled wizard….. (harry)

113 AceNo Gravatar June 17, 2007 at 2:36 am

O btw Avidfan, although your arguments are well based, do not place any faith in the details on the cover. Of u look at book 6 US art, dubledore has both his hands in mint condition. Also, he apears at full health after drinking the potion on the UK cover. Dont base anything on coverart.

114 AceNo Gravatar June 17, 2007 at 2:51 am

O and btw the fake story is actually not that bad if u cant wait to read the real book. It kept me entertained, although its more of a romance novel rather than a violent gruesome book. IS anyone else hoping rowling kills harry?

I have a separate theory. Think carefull about the number seven. Seven is the number of books rowling wrote, the number of school years in a wizars life, the amout of years after a decade that a wizard comes of age, The number of pieces of LV’s sould, The moneth harry was born in (july), 7/21–721 is divisable by 7. SO the thought came to me 7 pieces of LV’s soul, 7 books
one in each book. This is only a speculation which i believe makes sense.

Socerers stone- LV himself
Chamber of secrets- diary
Prisoner of Azkaban- Ravenclaws_________(fill if you know)or the cup
Goblet of fire- Nagini?(if she is a horcrux)
Order of the pheonix- Locket (if RAB is Regulus)
Half blood prince- the ring
Book 7- The last one………..

115 korg20000bcNo Gravatar June 17, 2007 at 3:10 am

Ace,
I’m not really sure where you’re coming from here. 7 books- 7 horcruxes. I think Voldemort already had most of the horcruxes made before he fell previously.

Would you clarify your idea please?

Matthew

116 AceNo Gravatar June 17, 2007 at 12:48 pm

all im saying is that JKR shows us the horcruxes, 1 in each book in a detail, and just flashes over them. If u read closely enough, ull find she tells us about 1 in each book. Im not tlking about when he made them, just when they are revealed to us.

117 PipNo Gravatar June 17, 2007 at 1:31 pm

I think that’s a reasonable theory, Ace. Only, I don’t think the Sorcerer’s stone was a horcrux. It was a source for Voldemort’s return to ‘life’.

118 MiaNo Gravatar June 17, 2007 at 3:56 pm

Mia, just how long is this fanfiction?

Boggart, it’s 34 chapters long, just google “The Seventh Horcrux” and you’ll get there!

119 AceNo Gravatar June 17, 2007 at 4:29 pm

no Pip the sorcerers stone was the name of the book..
I was kind of wondering, between Ginny, Harry, hermione and Ron, there are 4 of them as well as 4 founders. If u had to compare each of the to a founder who would be who??
My choice:
Ginny- Slytherin
Harry- Griffindor
Hermione- ravenclaw
Ron- Hufflepuff

Keeping that in mind, what if Hogwarts is destroyed and they rebuild the school, and they are the new founders. Knid acool eh?

120 korg20000bcNo Gravatar June 17, 2007 at 6:46 pm

Ace,
If we had refound Hogwarts I’d pick- Hermione in Ravenclaw,
Neville in Hufflepuff,
Harry in Slytherin,
Luna in Gryffindor.(She certainly is brave!)

Matthew

121 marconiNo Gravatar June 18, 2007 at 2:59 am

ok, no cell phone abbreviation.Then this fake writer is quite gineus. His/her guess about the horcruxes is quite considerable.
I am not sure whether this would hurt you all or not. Here i am giving the link to the fake/leaked HP 7. I thought this might ease some of your curiosity. Pardon me if you think i am a spoiler. But i just want to share the genious of this writer.

************************************
Link: http://rapidshare.com/files/37872253/Harry_Potter_the_deathly_hallows.rar
Pass: rossallyn

122 AceNo Gravatar June 18, 2007 at 12:18 pm

hey ive been wondering. People in hogwarts (dumbledore included) could never apparate on castle grounds. This was, according to hermione because of powerful enchantments on the grounds. Even LV could not break them after DD death. But despite all that, house elfs can apparate. I think that the house elves will become a huge weapon to harry (particularly dobby and kreacher). They may even be the ones to have a shield strong enough to destroy the Avada kedavra. just something to mull over.

123 AceNo Gravatar June 18, 2007 at 12:21 pm

O and Marconi, the writer may be genious, but she (it is a she) never claimed to have the real version, as she writes that she was unsure of some stuff and was aided by her friends in the writing of the book. Also, she is a genious writer but makes huge errors. first, she leaves out some things Rowling promised to clarify by book 7. Second LANGUAGE!! shes terrible at that. Third, she seems to make the book more of a romance novel and we lose Harry’s normal personality in the book. It is a great story though, dont get me wrong. I actually liked the story but she should have killed harry. It would have tied ends together and made for a more JKR ending rather than a fairy tale.

124 AceNo Gravatar June 18, 2007 at 2:06 pm

Has anyone else been feeling that JKR’s ideas come from a mix of the french revolution, world war two, many religious tales and of course mythology.

125 AceNo Gravatar June 19, 2007 at 11:13 pm

Does anyone else believe that Hermione may be an accomplished legimens or occlumens???

126 joeNo Gravatar June 23, 2007 at 9:58 am

Does anyone else think that dudley could never be a wizard, I think that is not possible. The dursleys have always hated magic and they like it in The Seventh Horcrux?

127 ReyhanNo Gravatar June 23, 2007 at 10:52 am

There’s something we don’t know about Dudley.

Here are the facts:

He has an extremely strong reaction to the Dementors. I don’t think a Muggle would have reacted that way.

The presence of the Dementor stirs up some really nasty memories. What are those memories?

The Dementor tries to kiss Dudley. Would a Dementor kiss a Muggle?

Dudley is Lily’s nephew. It’s not impossible that he has inherited some wizarding genes.

JKR tells us Petunia is a Muggle, but suggests that there is more to her, which we will find out about in DH. Maybe she’s a Muggle but her son is not?

So there is some room for speculating that Dudders has some wizarding potential. But the question then would be: why hasn’t he used his powers? why isn’t he at Hogwarts?

I can see, with Petunia’s intense dislike of magic, that she would never have encouraged him to use his powers (if he had any), and of course kept him out of Hogwarts. But would Dudders, who is a bully, willingly have not used those powers to torment others, sort of like a stupider and less subtle version of Tom Riddle at the orphanage?

Questions, questions, questions.

But there’s something there.

128 ErinNo Gravatar June 30, 2007 at 12:00 am

Hi everyone! I’m new to the site i was looking up when the seventh book came out. i was pretty sure that it was the 21st but i didnt want to go to the barns and noble on the wrong day! Well I have a bunch of questions! I read through all of the comments before i posted this so that i didnt re-ask what someone has already said. First:the biggest thing on my mind is if harry will die. i dont want him to. if he dies then i will definately cry. i cried when dumbledore died, and i mean this is HARRY were talking about!
Second:why does kreaher like Beliatrix so much? she is an mean which!

To the theory that Dudley is a wizard, it is unlikley. He is terrified of magic. He was always telling harry to stay away from him. If he was a wizard he wouldnt have been so scared.

Is Dumbledore REALY dead? I dont know. But because he became a portarate in the headmasters office I think he is.

Oh, and marconi? dont spoil the end for us.

I’m looking forward to hearing from all of you!

Erin

129 ErinNo Gravatar June 30, 2007 at 12:56 pm

Oh, and is anyone else TOTALY exited for The Order of the Phoenix to come out?

130 MartinNo Gravatar July 2, 2007 at 3:39 pm

Welcome Erin.

I would say Dumbledore is dead since Snape, who made unbreakable wove, is still alive.

Perhaps you have chosen wrong and place and time to enter discusion: it looks like this discussion stopped. Why do not you enter the some of the active discussions? I am sure you will do well on Gryffidorsword.

131 ErinNo Gravatar July 6, 2007 at 3:01 pm

Thanks. Well, what should I say? What have you have you guys been talking about?

132 MartinNo Gravatar July 6, 2007 at 6:23 pm

Erin,

In a nutshell: We have been talking about Snanpe, horcruxes and many other topics that have occurred. I strongly recommend you the panel in right, there are three very important categories: Most Popular Posts, Recent Comment and Recent posts.

Category Most Popular Post lists the posts with the most comment. As you can see two horcrux posts are the most popular; we have reached 1000 comment mark recently on Is-Harry-a-horcrux. You can always go there; the discussion continues for very long and will continue until book seven is publish. Second popular post, Horcruxes-a-summary in not very active, but still there are some new comments. I am very interested in the topic, if you were interested as well we would meet there, most likely next week.

Category Recent comments holds five recent comments. The best way to know what is going on is to keep eyes on this category; it so happens sometimes an old and forgotten topic rise again. If there were no such a category I would never know about your two comments.

Our host Travis Prinzi adds new topics. As far as he adds a topic, the topic appears on the top of the list in category Recent posts, people usually add some comment. Severus Snape might not have been popular on Hogwarts, but he is very popular on Gryffindorswor. There are often posts related to :Snape: „Snape in Love“ is the second most recent. Hog’s Head PubCast #29 (the fourths) refers to Snape as well, in I am going to add a comment very soon, and I would be very pleased if you wrote me what do you think about it.

133 ErinNo Gravatar July 6, 2007 at 6:31 pm

ok. So I need to go to the recent posts to stay with the conversation? Sorry, just trying to get aquainted!

134 MartinNo Gravatar July 6, 2007 at 7:23 pm

Erin,

To join recent post is perhaps it is the best way. However you have some more possibilities: for example to join old but popular post rather then recent one. Is-Harry-a-Horcrux is a very old post as far as I know it started in September 2005, but it is still active. There are some people who prefer to discus the topic rather than join recent post, I seldom do so. You can reopen whichever post you like, but you would have to bring a stunning idea to do so. Generally speaking, recent posts and horcruxes are always good choices.

135 Ronald Potter SP 2No Gravatar July 11, 2007 at 7:59 pm

The HAllow is theplace of the climax where the deatheaterz are nd evythang

136 baneNo Gravatar July 13, 2007 at 10:35 am

i think when it says hallows theyre refering to when harry says at the end of harry potter 6 hes going to his parents graves. the name is something that ends with hallows

137 baneNo Gravatar July 13, 2007 at 10:41 am

yes erin dumbledore is dead remember in # 6 he got blasted off of that tower by snape and then buried in the white tomb by the lake

138 ErinNo Gravatar July 14, 2007 at 8:10 pm

yes i know he’s dead. i already said that in my 1st comment.

139 ErinNo Gravatar July 14, 2007 at 8:27 pm

And what do u mean Ronald Potter SP2?

140 william silvaNo Gravatar July 15, 2007 at 4:34 pm

the book harry potter and the deathly hallows was translated as “insigmas mortais” in portuguese, which means “deathly hints” i think it’s all about the horcruxes i think harry will get some hints the leads him to the horcruxes which are strongly protected and can kill anyone who is not capable of destrying and courses that pretect the horcruxe.

141 MiaNo Gravatar July 15, 2007 at 5:49 pm

Not sure if the foreign publishers have the manuscript already. The German title hasn’t been announced yet, and the Swedish and French versions are a translation of the alternative title “Relics of Death”. So how do we know that the Hallows are hints? Maybe it’s just an educated guess from the Portuguese translator…

142 Big-ZNo Gravatar July 19, 2007 at 12:43 am

you guys are forgetting a really important part besides the horcruxes, harry was born in Godrics Hallow, the name deathly hallows could signify the end of either voldemort or harry fighting at godrics hallow, the spot where the dark lord was brought down the first time.

143 Big D.No Gravatar July 19, 2007 at 2:44 pm

Big D. agrees with Big-Z!

144 ErinNo Gravatar July 19, 2007 at 5:10 pm

Big-Z,
Good point. Mabe it wil be de ja vu and voldemort will go down there for good. or mabe it will backfire and harry will die. Just have to be open to the possibilities.

145 ErinNo Gravatar July 21, 2007 at 4:39 pm

yay!! the book comes out today im going to go to the store in like 30 mins!!

146 ErinNo Gravatar July 22, 2007 at 1:00 pm

i started the book yesterday. im more than half way done!! its awesome! there are alot of twists. have any of u got it?

147 ErinNo Gravatar July 22, 2007 at 8:24 pm

wow!! i just figured out what the deathly hallows means and it is not what and of yall think it is!! i wont spoil it but u find out in chapter 21. cool!!! im going to keep reading now.

148 ErinNo Gravatar July 28, 2007 at 10:52 pm

I loved that book!! i loved it so much i read it again! i finished it for the second time about 3 days ago but it didnt occur to me to post this untill tonight. well bye!

149 DanielNo Gravatar August 15, 2007 at 12:07 pm

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article Book 7 Title: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.

150 wmNo Gravatar February 17, 2008 at 2:01 am

I liked how dh ended very much.I just didn’t like alot of the deaths lupin for one. or fred.do any of you share my veiws on this? also what do you think of dumbledores coming out? i guess rowling thought it was time he came out of the closet. all in all a wonderful book.good job jk rowling you are the best!

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