by Travis
I’m wondering what the marriage of celebrity culture to great literature is doing to Harry Potter.
The extent to which film has become normative in our culture is profound, especially as it relates to literature. We all used to joke about getting the movie version in order to do book reports in school (much to the chagrin of our teachers), but the Harry Potter phenomenon has produced a situation in which, for most of Harry Potter subculture, the films and the stories are inseparable. Just subscribe to “Harry Potter” news updates through Google or any of the major fansites, and you’ll see what I mean.
So, according to the way the name Harry Potter is used, it’s “Harry Potter News” every time one of the young Potter actors is going to be naked for an upcoming project. So this week’s “Monday Magical Musings” presents the following questions for discussion:
- What effects, positive and/or negative, is the broader Harry Potter subculture having on the overall perception of the series?
- Is it really “Harry Potter” news when Rupert Grint is going to be naked in a non-Potter movie? Is it really “Harry Potter” news if Daniel Radcliffe thinks he might have to get naked for the last Harry Potter movie? Or when Emma Watson goes to a polo match?
- Is the story and the heart of Harry Potter getting lost in the celebrity culture that has been inextricably linked to it?
- How long (or what) will it take for the series to get beyond the commercial hype and become more popular in academia than it is in pop culture?
Note: I’m entering this post in the Problogger “Killer Title” contest.
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{ 27 comments… read them below or add one }
I completely agree with you. I tend to stay away from reporting any non-HP related news. Even if the news has to do with the HP actors. (Except for the rare BIG news story like when Maggie Smith was diagnosed w/ cancer). Because of this, I unnecessarily go further and don’t even report all of the HP movie news out there- like the new pics out etc. I have a very hard time trying to separate the important news from the tabloid.
How in the world did I miss the news that Maggie Smith has cancer?!
Every time I’m post the latest HBP pics, I cringe a little.
’she was diagnosed a few months ago. I think/hope she is doing well.
I don’t think there is anything wrong w/ posting the pics. I just tend to shy away from doing it in my overzealousness against the movies.
I don’t think there can be any doubt about the effects of the HP subculture on the perception of the series, unfortunately.
I think that it gives the series a ridiculous amount of publicity, which can be a positive thing, but at what cost?
Does the Harry Potter series then become just some over-hyped phenomenon? Some people may shy away from the series because they don’t want to get involved in the “hype”.
I, ashamedly, was one of those people until I was “forced” to read The Philosopher’s Stone by a very dear friend.
I completely agree that new regarding the actors other projects, personal lives, etc. is NOT Harry Potter news, and I agree with Penny that it sometimes is difficult, even just as a reader, to stay away from the tabloid stories and focus on the REAL HP news.
I think you hit the heart of what worries me, Travis, when you asked “Is the story and the heart of Harry Potter getting lost in the celebrity culture that has been inextricably linked to it?”
because I really do think it is… after all, look at all the religious zealots who are condemning the books…did they actually READ the series, or are they basing their opinions on pop culture?
I think it’s very sad that so many people will not have the pleasure of experiencing the books because they’ve “seen the movies”.
Chelsea, good thoughts. I think the concept of “REAL HP” news is an interesting one, because subtracting the celebrity culture, there really would be no “REAL HP” news – because no one ever writes news stories on published articles in academic journals of literature! Things like “The Tales of Beedle the Bard” and other Potter-related stuff that Rowling publishes would be real HP news. But there certainly wouldn’t be over a hundred Potter headlines a day in my Google Reader, like there are now.
HP presents a quandry for academics. It is popular commercial fiction on one level, dependent on a vast marketing machine and exploited at all levels to make oodles and oodles of money. For that reason, I can tell you that it will not develop the same critical cache as any of Rowling’s heroes until well after the hoopla dies, or at least tapers off.
Of course, many authors have suffered this same fate. Hemingway was a significantly famous author during his lifetime, and widely lauded with many major awards. But, from a scholarly perspective, Hemingway studies didn’t really blossom until the hype died away, unfortunately after Hemingway’s suicide.
Academics are suspicious of mass marketed fiction because of the tendancy to think that consumer driven markets are largely devoid of deep thought and insight — the primary purpose is making money, not peeling away at human existence. The anthology I had to use to teach introductory literature this summer actually said as much. “Literary” fiction deals with the important questions of human existence. “Consumer” fiction is just trite escapism with nothing to add to our exploration of the human condition.
Of course, we can all think of plenty of books that are just trite escapism. I’ve read all of Tom Clancy’s major novels, but I’ve made the decision at some point that they are no where near the level of J.K. Rowling’s books. Simultaneously, I’ve also made the decision that Rowling is not on Ernest Hemingway’s level, either (my wife would kill me…). But, if you push me on the question, I have to admit that I can’t defend my reasons beyond purely arbitrary criteria that I’ve developed over time.
Contemporary culture’s tendancy is to exacerbate this issue, especially for more conservative scholars (i.e. traditionalist). If a book is adapted into a movie (especially a major blockbuster), then there’s something wrong here. “Literary” just doesn’t apply to the interests of the masses. And if a game has been developed from it, well…you can imagine. The fulcrum depends on how much cultural cache someone is willing to give to pop culture. The rise of superheroes in the mid 20th century helped to foment this debate. The 1970s saw some of the first legitimate scholarship on comics and pop culture mythoi. And there are some incredibly vitriolic articles condemning such pursuits as a waste of good research and journal space.
The good news is that newer generations of scholars are…well, us! Most of the major journals on children’s lit have published surprisingly large quantities of scholarship on HP. I just had an article rejected, and the reason given was the flood of work that journal has recently received on HP. Searching the major databases on literature reveals a pretty respectable amount of research for a subject widely seen as condemned by academia. Conferences in English Studies have growing numbers of panels on all kinds of pop culture media — comics, videogames, hypertexts, and Harry Potter, just to name a few. Even fanfic is garnering scholarly attention in what Henry Jenkins and others have coined our “participatory culture”.
Many of us are the ones that grew up at a time when comics consciously took a turn to be “serious”, when GI Joe and Transformers were deeply affecting our psyches — basically when a literacy of pop culture became a primary criteria for assimilating into and navigating mainstream western culture. That pop culture has taken marked steps to see itself as one point in the narratives of our larger monomyths. I routinely refer back to Harry, Master Chief, and Batman to get my students to wrap their heads around Gilgamesh and Beowulf.
Oh, I don’t know.
Would agree that “Daniel Radcliffe Naked” would not be Real Harry Potter news. But “Dumbledore Gay” would still make the cut.
But I think that one of the main things we’re dealing with here is the Cult of the Celebrity in our modern culture, especially as it applies to movie stars (although we also have celebrities who are famous merely for being famous!) And I note that not every movie actor is part of the Celebrity Cult: for every Brad Pitt, Angeline Jolie and Madonna, we have a Matt Damon, Cate Blanchett and Shania Twain. But it’s hard for movie actors to escape the 24/7 attention of hungry paparazzi. And so HP gets sucked in to the popular maelstorm.
At the next level, we have the written story of HP vs the filmed story of HP. I was watching OotP last night. I can’t help it – everytime I turn on the TV (which isn’t that often, btw,) there’s a HP movie playing. Last night I had a choice between GoF and Order With revgeorge’s comments about Dumbledore/Gambon’s hysterical manhandling of Harry in mind, I opted for Order. One of the first things I noticed was how the screenplay collapsed the plot in several instances. For example, in the movie, the meetings of Dumbledore’s Army are given away by Cho, rather than her friend (whose name escapes me, and who wasn’t mentioned in the script). Cho subsequently is shown to earn everyone’s animosity, and later still is shown to have acted under the influence of veritaserum (which revelation does not restore the relationship with Harry, btw). Nothing wrong with all that – many of us here have acknowledged that movies can’t be 100% faithful to the books. But the plot is altered perceptibly – if not in a major way. Later on, we have a continued dialogue between Malfoy, pere, and Harry, over the prophecy at the Ministry. The scenes are a delight to watch because of the silken menace Jason Isaacs puts into his words. But check the book – as I just did – and you’ll find that a number of Death Eaters share the lines in that scene. In the movie, they are relegated to secondary roles, except for Bella who does her bit with Sirius Black and continues on to taunt Harry. And speaking of Sirius Black, the famous line “Good one, James!” does not exist in the book. The closest we get is “Nice one!” shouted Sirius
My point is this: which version are we going to remember? I’m not talking about the people who haven’t read the books. I’m talking about the people who read the books with enjoyment, and also went to the movies. And I’m also talking about us – you know who you are – who read the books over and over again, and watch the movies repeatedly. Dave tLW likes to talk about a common cultural knowledge base (I can’t remember the exact term he uses, but it refers to books which most members of a culture will have read, the link being that HP will provide that for the current generation of readers). All good and fine, but with the way the movies collapse and paraphrase and sometimes elaborate on the books, what will that common cultural knowledge look like? What will we all remember? The plain but true Nice one or the much more pithy and impactful, but untrue Good one, James?
As for the question of Harry’s being naked in the DH King’s Cross scene: it’s that way in the book, and it makes sense, given the circumstances. His entire body doesn’t have to be shown in the film, but to clothe him would really change the nature of the scene. Come on people, grow up. Not everything is about sex.
I’m not sure that the PG-13 world is ready for the total reality of King’s Cross. Harry naked is one thing, fairly easily dealt with (he wakes up lying face down, with the naughty bits out of sight and there’s some convenient vapour around; as soon as he sits up he hears soft thumpings, wishes he were clothed, and presto: there are some robes). The only tricky bit is how he gets the robes on without unseemly nakedity, but PG-13 movie makers have a lot of experience in that, although usually in a different context. No, Harry’s nakedness is not going to be a major issue.
What could be more interesting is how the movie makers deal with whatever it is that Tom Riddle is doing by himself or to himself, over in the corner, the pitiful yet slightly indecent noise that gives Harry the uncomfortable feeling that he’s eavesdropping on something “furtive, shameful”.
Korg here has alluded to what he thinks Riddle is doing and there haven’t been any credible alternatives advanced.
Maybe not everything is about sex (although us grown ups know that it’s more often about sex than not), but sex is a sub-text at King’s Cross. Leaving aside questions about whether what the Muggle thugs did to Ariana was sexually violent, we are still left with Riddle’s thumpings and Dumbledore’s thing for Grindelwald.
This post is right on the mark. I’m bewildered every time I check my favorite news site, and the ‘hot news’ is a Harry Potter actor’s latest movie release. Um… The hype machine is a bit much. I put up with it, because I’m in it for the enjoyment of canon information and analysis and Rowling’s fantasy world, in general. Frankly, I’m not concerned about the lasting legacy of the series. If people are still reading and talking about it 25, 50 years from now, then it’ll prove itself to a classic work of literature. In no way, shape or form can I be considered an academic, but the movies have little impact on my perception of the books, because I’ve been reading and re-reading the books even before the movies came out. Sure, I’ll go and watch the latest installment in the theater. Beyond thinking “that was visually stunning and somewhat entertaining,” it’s not likely I’ll give a second thought to it afterwards. The hype machine is just that. I won’t let it influence me (to the point that I am aware of it) or let it interrupt the pleasure I derive from the stories I love.
So many good things said already. I think people are on the right track in thinking that the pop culture nature of HP is going to die out after awhile. Probably once all the movies are done & time moves on a bit. But I think the literary appeal & thus the deeper meaning & appeal of HP will continue.
But right now the phenomenon of HP is inextricably intwined with the literary nature of HP. Just the way it is, I’m afraid. The more trite escapist aspects of it, as Dave put it, though, will die down, although they’ll probably be there for a long time. After all, not too many people still go out to midnight showings of Rocky Horror dressed in costume any more & act out the movie from memory. But some still do. Plus, don’t get me wrong; I love Rocky Horror. Just the reaction to it nowadays is much different than when it first became a cult hit.
“Is it really “Harry Potter” news when Rupert Grint is going to be naked in a non-Potter movie? Is it really “Harry Potter” news if Daniel Radcliffe thinks he might have to get naked for the last Harry Potter movie? Or when Emma Watson goes to a polo match?”
No. Maybe or Yes. And No.
Things connected to the books, the movies, or the phenomenon should be considered HP news. Things related to those who have had parts in the films should not be considered HP news, although we may still be interested in it, but it doesn’t impact the series itself or our perception or study of the series.
Also, if & when JKR writes other works, news about them will not be HP news.
Red Rocker wrote, “At the next level, we have the written story of HP vs the filmed story of HP…which version are we going to remember? I’m not talking about the people who haven’t read the books. I’m talking about the people who read the books with enjoyment, and also went to the movies. And I’m also talking about us – you know who you are – who read the books over and over again, and watch the movies repeatedly. Dave tLW likes to talk about a common cultural knowledge base (I can’t remember the exact term he uses, but it refers to books which most members of a culture will have read, the link being that HP will provide that for the current generation of readers). All good and fine, but with the way the movies collapse and paraphrase and sometimes elaborate on the books, what will that common cultural knowledge look like? What will we all remember? The plain but true Nice one or the much more pithy and impactful, but untrue Good one, James?”
I’m not sure about others, but I know that I have no real problem separating out the books from the movies. I like the movies, for the most part, with certain glaring exceptions (I’m looking in your direction, Sir Michael).
But when I think of the story of HP, I think primarily in terms of the books. Because that’s where all the depth is. That’s where the meat of the story is & where the character development is. The books are much richer, more filling than the movies. The movies are like a hot fudge sundae, nice & sweet but ultimately not very filling while the books are the full course meal that satisfies us & makes us push ourselves back from the table, sighing deeply & patting our full stomachs.
Part of the problem here (at least to me) is that we’re lumping all the movies into the same boat. Movies 1 through 3 are completely different affairs from movies 4 and 5. Chamber of Secrets manages to instill some wonder in me everytime I watch it. The first three films have become as important to my Christmas-time movie list as Ralphie and his Red Rider BB Gun. Okay, so the animatronic phoenix dripping tears into Harry’s wounds looked rather hoaky. But it’s still compelling. Once the films got a budget, they became pure bombast. The recent EW article points out that HBP has drastically reduced the emphasis on the Voldemort/Pensieve bits.
What!?!
That’s the primary plot to the whole sixth book, but it’s not teenage love and a lot of wand-waving (how very Freudian). I would guess the first half of the film will be Ron making out a lot with Lavender Brown while Hermione and her eyebrows sulk around all heartbroken. In the background will be Harry mooning over Ginny in between a Pensieve lesson or two. The last third to half of the film will be the Cave and the return to Hogwarts.
This is one reason I sometimes think of Harry in the context of superheroes — his films have become comic book movies in the same vein as Daredevil.
As far as books versus films? Let’s be careful not to kid ourselves. Movies reach a much bigger audience, and a Harry Potter movie gets the vast majority of its readership and a heck of a lot more. If you factor in that much of the readership doesn’t care about analyzing the books (”OMG! Ron is so stupid!!!”), I think the movies will ultimately give the books a run for their money in terms of cultural longevity — and they might win. Call me a cynic, but I have a hard time believing that even most adult readers take the books all that seriously.
Travis, you go to the conferences and conventions pretty regularly. How many of the conference-goers would you say are there for analysis of Potter versus something else? And how many repeat faces do you see from event to event?
Hmm. I would agree that the movies are over-hyped (especially now, when there are no new books in the series to talk about). I’ve always viewed the movies as pleasant diversions that make me want to go back and read the books, but then that’s my usual take on film adaptations of beloved books!
But I wonder about the usefulness of dividing HP the “cultural” phenomenon from HP the “literary” phenomenon. I do think the cultural hoopla will eventually die down, at least once the final movie is out, and I’m looking forward to that. But I’d also hate to see these books relegated to mere fodder for academics (not that I think there’s any real danger that will happen). The beauty of HP the books, it seems to me, is that they have touched on a raw hunger for story-telling in our culture. Real people of all ages love these stories, and they don’t feel leery of approaching them as they might some (if not most) literary fiction, even though there’s some marvelous literary fiction out there that can speak to ordinary people. I don’t think Rowling aspired to great literature (is that a terrible thing to say?) but to good story-telling. But the fact that she herself was steeped in very great literature left its marks all over HP, for which we can be thankful.
I still wish they’d held off making the movies until the series was finished, but there has been something rather fascinating about seeing the movies play out just a few beats behind. It will be interesting for future generations to realize that the actors portraying these characters really had no idea, at leas through the first five films, of their characters’ ultimate destinies. (Remember it wasn’t too long ago that Radcliffe was still speculating on the likelihood of Harry’s demise.) I think the newness of the books and the fact that they were unfinished for much of the early filmmaking lends more interest to the discussion of how these films and these actors have interpreted and brought the stories to life. I always find that an interesting discussion: seeing how stories translate from written to visual medium.
I’m still looking forward to a BBC mini-series adaptation 20 years from now.
Then we can all have nostalgic discussions about the early years of HP fandom…
Yeah, the BBC mini-series should be good. I’ll miss Robbie Coltrane, Maggie Smith, Emma Watson, Helena Bonham-Carter, Evanna Lynch, David Thewlis, Davud Bradley, Imelda Staunton, Alan Rickman and the Phelps twins, though, not to mention Richard Harris. On the other hand, perhaps Hero Fiennes-Tiffin will develop into an actor and play the adult Voldemort. And we’ll finally get the Dumbledore (Harris not being available) the series deserves.
Dave, I agree that GoF was a step down from the first three movies, but I don’t quite agree about OotP There are moments, especially with Staunton, the Phelps twins, and Lynch, which are pretty good and which do get to the heart of the story.
As for your point that most adult readers don’t take the books seriously, I need to ask: which fiction books do most adult readers take seriously? What level of acceptance or respect or importance are you looking for?
I don’t think it’s possible to separate the two, the HP literary phenomenon & the cultural one. Nor is it necessary to play off the two against each other. But I think we have to distinguish between cultural & pop cultural. The literary & cultural value of HP will endure, I think. We, of course, can’t know until after the fact, but we can make some good predictions.
But the pop cultural phenomenon of HP is going to fade. It may never entirely go away, just like the pop cultural phenomenon of Star Trek or Star Wars hasn’t gone away yet. But it won’t maintain it’s fever pitch.
Lord of the Rings will be read long after Peter Jackson’s bad adaptations are forgotten. Same with Lewis’ Narniad. And the same with Rowling’s series. The books will long outlive the various movie adaptations.
And even if much of the readership isn’t interested in seriously analyzing the books, I still think the books are going to outlive the movies. I think Red Rocker’s question is important, what level of seriousness, from either adults or youth, counts as making a book important?
The first thing that came to my mind when I read this post was the totally disgusting song I heard a Wizard Rock band play at Portus. This song was really far from “the story and the heart of Harry Potter.” I love these books, but have never gone in for the fanfic, Wizard Rock, or the movies for that matter. I’m sure there is some worthwhile, redeeming qualities in some of the “extra-curricular” Harry Potter endeavors, but I’m stickin’ with the books!
Leanne, I agree for the most part. There’s some wizard rock I like. There’s even fewer fanfic that I like, & the best fanfic, in my opinion, is that which sticks most closely to canon or builds off of canon. And by canon I normally mean the texts of the books.
But as far as relating to the books I’d rather discuss the books themselves & gather meaning from them. For those who like to write wizard rock or fanfic or do fan art, I would hope their love of the HP world would eventually lead them into expanding their talents into other subjects or more particularly to expand their own creative visions. I’m perhaps not saying that right but hopefully you can glean what I’m trying to say.
As a wizard rocker myself, I can both defend the “extra-curricular” and sympathize with the “stickin’ with the books”. RevGeorge, I think that for some of us, the stories provide a good creative outlet in which to sharpen our skills; I was a musician long before I was a Harry Potter fan, and wrock allows me to learn recording techniques and try out new sounds, etc.
Like Leanne, though, I have little patience with major deviations from the heart of the books–especially those that get disgusting with it. There is so much of that in fanfic and wizard rock that it’s really difficult to sift through for the good stuff. There is good stuff to find, though. I happen to think my own is not all that bad
As to whether Daniel Radcliffe appears naked in anything non-Harry-related, I would much rather NOT know. And if he’s going to strip for the Silver Doe chapter, it would seem to me that the moviemakers would have to do it tastefully and without showing us “everything”–otherwise they’ll have to rate it past the age of the kids that will be wanting to attend. I knew there was a reason that I prefer children’s stories most of the time …
LibraryLily,
Hopefully my comments didn’t come off as an attack on wrockers or fanfic writers. I certainly didn’t mean them that way. I was just personally stating that, for the most part, wizardrock & fanfic don’t appeal to me, with limited exceptions.
And I recognize that there are lots of creative people involved in wrock & fanfic, as well as fan art & what not. I just wanted to express my hope that they would expand their creativity beyond HP. Not that they have to do so, but I think there are lots of people outside of HP fandom who would benefit from the creativity of the fandom if it was channelled into other genres.
RevGeorge, I didn’t take your comments negatively at all! Sorry about the awkward wording. That’s what I get for posting in a hurry
My point was that those of us who are seriously interested in writing or music do work outside of the HP fandom; HP provides more of a side thing, a fun way to polish skills, than anything else. I justify the time I spend in wizard rock by believing that it helps me grow as an artist and a person. On the other hand, there are a lot of wrockers who can’t sing and a lot of fanfic writers who can’t write a good sentence, and I wonder what they’re gaining from the experience. Most of them are very young. I, too, hope they can grow beyond it. It seems to me that the whole point of alchemical literature, and of discussing it as do Travis and John and everyone here, is to grow personally; creative expression of enjoyment in that world ought to be just a place to start.
All that to say: I was agreeing, not disagreeing with you, and I certainly didn’t take offense
Thanks, LibraryLily. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t being unclear in my statements. I certainly didn’t want to say anything to the extent that people involved in wrock or fanfic or what not were wasting their time. I don’t think that’s the case, or at least not the case in most instances. As you point out, there’s some people who might be better served finding something else to do.
But I think most people are just channeling their creativity into something they dearly love, which is a good thing.
I was thinking about the list of names of actors whose performance I would miss if (when) BBC does the 24-part mini-series. And I realized that I’d forgotten about Emma Thompson, as undistinguishable behind Sybil Trelawney’s bottle-bottom glasses as behind Nanny McPhee’s potato nose. And Brendan Gleeson was very good as well, especially with that menacing, lurching walk.
librarylily- I just clicked the link to your music site and have to say – beautiful song! Everyone is so nice and respectful here and I wanted to add my “I didn’t mean to offend” comment as well. I think there is a lot of good creative work being done, with HP as a springboard. I guess with all creative endeavors there’s a risk of becoming too sensual. George MacDonald, in his very autobiographical _Phantastes_ explores the temptations artists face to not allow their work to degenerate into perverse views of love and sexuality. I guess the limited exposure I’ve had to wizard rock was one where the artists weren’t so careful.
But I know there is a legitimate and appropriate side of this spectrum as well, and I didn’t mean to imply that it’s “all bad.”
This is kind of a different category of discussion than the “celebrity culture” of the movie actors, isn’t it?
librarylily wrote:
“Most of them are very young. I, too, hope they can grow beyond it. It seems to me that the whole point of alchemical literature, and of discussing it as do Travis and John and everyone here, is to grow personally; creative expression of enjoyment in that world ought to be just a place to start.”
librarylily, I was a presenter and reporter at Portus for HPFZ and attended a couple Wizard wrock events at the conference. I had some concerns as well at the perverse sexualized lyrics that were performed within some but not all of the songs. There were some groups that gave a good display of talent musically and some that just wanted to be part of an expression that allowed them to perform within the world of Harry Potter. As you stated, they are still young and learning and as it is with youth, not always choosing the right path with their talents, but that’s part of growing up as well.
As a presenter, I look to deliver a more positive, life uplifting view into the world of Harry Potter that deals with the virtue, courage, self-sacrifice and giving of ones life to save the lives of others. That is for the most part, along with the alchemical literary aspects of the Harry Potter series is why most of us are continuing to be presenters at these conferences.
It speaks from outside of most of the Pop-Culture that quickly takes the youth away from the central message of the books and brings us back to the realities of life and death and the questions that J K Rowling herself stated that she struggles with in her own faith.
It’s my prayer that those who are only into Pop-Culture side of the HP movies and Wizard wrock will step on over to a HP conference literary/philosophical session or two and look at Harry’s choices with us to choose life and self-sacrifice and to choose what is right instead of what is easy.