Chapter 6: The Ghoul in Pajamas

by Travis Prinzi on September 6, 2009

dh.c06--ghoul-in-pajamasThis is a transition chapter, moving us from Mad-Eye’s death to the Will and the wedding. It has its humorous and interesting moments, but the central part of the chapter is the Horcrux discussion. First, the interesting tidbits:

It’s interesting that they “could not hold a funeral for Mad-Eye” because they “could not find the body.” Later in the chapter, Hermione will say that if a human body is destroyed, the soul stays intact. It does not follow, obviously, that the body doesn’t matter. It appears that the Wizarding World embraces the idea that the body is as fundamental to the human as the spirit. In other words, the Wizarding World is not gnostic or dualistic.

This chapter has a few humorous moments, including some Wizarding swear words: “in the name of Merlin’s saggy left….” Ron’s first attempts at putting his new moves into practice when Hermione is crying are also amusing.

A couple of magical oddities in this chapter: First, we get the strange explanation of the Fidelius charm, in which the secret keeper happens to be everyone who knew the location of 12 Grimmauld. Many have pointed out that this is rather inconsistent with other descriptions of the charm. You’ve also got Harry’s odd question about whether or not the Ministry has said anything about his use of underage magic. But given that there were 30 or 40 wizards and witches flying around in that scene, all casting spells of one kind or another, it’s not possible for the Ministry to have even known Harry had used magic.

The Horcrux discussion is the key plot point in this chapter, as we finally begin to get a glimpse of what Horcruxes are (the complete opposite of a human being – evil as dehumanization!) and how to destroy them. This is, of course, a passage that caused some controversy after the release of Deathly Hallows, because many fans wondered why the basilisk venom in Harry’s blood at the end of Book 2 didn’t destroy the Voldemort soul-piece. The answer to this seems easy to me: Hermione explains that the object holding the Horcrux had to be destroyed beyond repair. That clearly wasn’t the case with Harry, who was healed by phoenix tears. It seems odd to me that the question was ever brought up as a matter of inconsistency on Rowling’s part, because she answered that question right there in the text, where Harry notes that phoenix tears are the only remedy for basilisk venom.

A question that might be worth exploring: if the key to this chapter is the Horcrux discussion, why is the chapter called “The Ghoul in Pajamas”? It seems a minor point. Could it be that the real heart of this chapter is the sacrifices made by Ron and Hermione? After all, the chapter is framed by the fretting Mrs. Weasley.

Further thoughts on chapter 6, I leave to the pub, along with a logistics question: how does everyone think our pace for the Deathly Hallows read-through is going so far? One or two posts a week – is that working for everyone?

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{ 55 comments… read them below or add one }

1 MelodyNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 1:34 am

“The Ghoul in Pajamas” – Well, who *wouldn’t* use a title like that, given the opportunity? :-) Interesting idea about Ron & Hermione’s sacrifices being the heart of the chapter. On this reading it really struck me how much Hermione was sacrificing as she arranged for the protection of her parents. Maybe Ron and Hermione’s plans represent the forging of – OK, I’ll say it – a Fellowship to destroy the Horcruxes.

As for the chapter being framed by the fretting Mrs. Weasley… More specifically, it’s framed by Mrs. Weasley’s eyes. Near the beginning, Harry sees his beloved Ginny in Molly’s eyes, and the chapter closes with Molly giving Harry a “long, searching look.” Eyes, anyone?

Horcruxes being the “complete opposite of a human being”: So, in his quest for immortality, Voldemort actually made his *already immortal soul* into something mortal. You just don’t get it, do you , Tom?

2 Plastic ColouristNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 5:42 am

I think because the last book is a long story about Horcruxes, there’s no reason to make a chapter title about it, I love this part because you have the other charathers, interaction that we kind of lose very soon as the trio goes in hiding.
I’m a long time reader secound time poster here.

3 korg20000bcNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 7:40 am

The Ghoul in Pajamas has the same ring as “wolf in sheep’s clothing” to me. In relation to horcruxes this may indicate the horrible soul piece may be in any mundane or innocent object. Or it may mean something about the terrible task at hand for the trio but it is wrapped in the usual, hum-drum business of day to day living at the Burrow.

4 SPTNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 10:22 am

It’s interesting that they “could not hold a funeral for Mad-Eye” because they “could not find the body.” Later in the chapter, Hermione will say that if a human body is destroyed, the soul stays intact. It does not follow, obviously, that the body doesn’t matter. It appears that the Wizarding World embraces the idea that the body is as fundamental to the human as the spirit. In other words, the Wizarding World is not gnostic or dualistic.

Whoa, that’s kind of a lot of significance to get out of the fact that they can’t hold a funeral without a body, isn’t it?

Also, Hermione’s idea seems to contradict the idea that the body is essential to the person. The soul can survive the death of the body, therefore the person survives the death of the body. Really the very definition of a soul means that the body is unimportant.

As for the Wizarding World not being Gnostic or dualistic, well, that is probably not provable or disprovable based on the books. However, this particular episode certainly does not disprove that thesis. There is strong and intentional gnostic information in books. Whether this information means something overall is hard to say. But it certainly doesn’t disappear because they can’t hold a funeral for Mad-Eye Moody.

5 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 10:34 am

SPT, this is speculation – hence, “it appears,” not “it’s conclusive” or “undoubtedly.”

Hermione’s idea seems to contradict the idea that the body is essential to the person.

No, it doesn’t, because non-dualists still believe the soul departs when the body is killed. You have to ignore a lot of people’s beliefs about souls to believe “the very definition of a soul means that the body is unimportant.”

All you’ve done so is made the bare assertion that my speculation about WW beliefs about the body is a big jump. What’s the alternative reason for why they can’t hold a funeral without Mad-Eye’s body? It seems likely to me that if the WW didn’t believe the body mattered, a funeral without a body would be the easiest thing in the world (logistically) to do.

6 Plastic ColouristNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 11:58 am

Funeral’s are for the people, not the souls, I don’t really understand how there related. But a funeral without a body or even his stuff is hard on the people because they have to do it again, if the body is found.
Also I think it more of a set up for later in the book when Harry puts the Eye under the tree.

7 Red RockerNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 12:03 pm

Agree that the title of the chapter refers to Ron and Hermione’s attempts to keep their loved ones safe in preparation for the horcrux hunt. Not sure I’d call it sacrificial: although Hermione sheds a tear (and Ron gets to practice some magic) over it, the sending of the parents to Australia with no memory of the daughter who presumably has been the center of their lives for 16 years is quickly dealt with. Reminds me of Princess Leia’s reaction to the destruction of her home planet: life must go on.

About the fretting Mrs. Weasley: the feminist analysis on other posts has made me more sensitive to what an annoying character she really is. You can argue that she is motivated by love and concern. But what she’s really doing is making her last normal days with the children she presumably loves intensely unpleasant. Not to mention just how emotionally out of control she seems. She’s got a funny way of showing her love. As for Arthur, he is giving a very convincing imitation of a the archetypal hen-pecked husband in the matters of Sirius’ bike and Fleur’s veela mum. And what’s up with Mrs. Delacour, anyways? Why is it noteworthy that she was:

most accomplished at household spells and had the oven properly cleaned in a trice

Of course I don’t blame any of the characters. Its JKR choosing to depict wizarding domestic life as a reflection of mid-20th century Muggle life.

8 revgeorgeNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 1:21 pm

Red Rocker said, “You can argue that she (Molly) is motivated by love and concern. But what she’s really doing is making her last normal days with the children she presumably loves intensely unpleasant. Not to mention just how emotionally out of control she seems. She’s got a funny way of showing her love.”

Yes, and if human beings were entirely motivated by logical rational reasoning the world would be a much happier place. Or we’d all be Vulcans.

9 NadiaNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 1:30 pm

RR, I don’t know if you’ve come across it but there was an article in Bitch magazine a while back (Stepping on the Harry Potter Buzz) that argued that Molly (and other female characters as well) was a nagging mom stereotype, I think it was written before GoF even came out. If I remember correctly the author did not like Hermione too much either.

10 Red RockerNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 1:51 pm

revgeorge, agree that the world would be a far less interesting place if we all behaved rationally and logically (not that there’s too much danger of that). But my point is not as much that Mrs. W is behaving emotionally and illogically, as that she is behaving in a particularly unpleasant way. A way which makes her someone to be ridiculed and avoided. Not a class act.

Which doesn’t really work too well with Mr. and Mrs. W being the foremost role models for home and family.

And of course it all goes back to JKR. Why is she depicting Mrs. W this way? Why can’t Mrs. W be more like Ginny – understanding and empathetic but not a bit less fierce in her protectiveness? Or like Lily – serene and kind but not a bit less fierce in her protectiveness? Or like Lupin, or Sirius, or Hermione or Hagrid or any of the other characters who love Harry and wish to protect him, but without being totally irritating about it?

Why did JKR make her like this?

11 revgeorgeNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 2:32 pm

Red, one could say Molly is acting the way she is because she might be under a little bit of stress. The whole war thing & all, thing’s not going well, pressure from the bumbling yet tyrannical Ministry, Voldemort trying to, well, kill her entire family & her semi-adopted children Hermione & Harry. Tends to make people behave very irrationally & unpleasantly at times. It’s almost as if Jo wrote her as a human being & as a mother.

Besides, most children think of their parents as interfering busybodies who are always trying to stop them from doing what they are sure needs to be done. And who are always smothering them. Things turn around a bit when they grow up & become parents themselves. And while the whole Weasley clan might be exasperated with Molly a lot of the time, they clearly love her & deal with her as she is.

I think the key is why did JKR write people certain ways. And I think the main problem people have is not with the characters but because Jo didn’t write the characters or the story the way they would’ve wanted it written. I think, I hesitate to say it, this is part of the feminist problem. Jo didn’t write the books as a feminist manifesto. She wrote in a way a lot of stereotypical characters and cliched characters. But she wrote them in her own way & with humanity. Harry Potter is not Atlas Shrugged, where everyone is just a cipher for some pure philosophical position.

Plus, all the other characters you mention have their own flaws & problems which are just as noticeable & perhaps annoying in their own way. Except for Lily who is the exemplar of the divine.

But I fear we’re going far afield of the subject of the chapter. Anyway, here’s my simplistic explanation: JKR wrote Molly the way she did because she needed Molly to be the way she was for the purposes of the story. :)

12 SeleneNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 2:37 pm

Mrs. W. has been changing over the course of the books – in response to the increased danger as Lord V. becomes more powerful? In response to more of her children taking their own paths and leaving her orbit? Or do we, seeing her through Harry’s p.o.v., just see her in a more adult and critical way, as we now see James Potter and Sirius?

Molly has always been the strongest voice in favor of keeping information back from Harry in particular (PoA), then from all (OotP). Now we see her trying desperately to retain control over the 2 youngest. We’ve laughed gently at her before (the kind faced woman who resembles a saber-toothed tiger and then sits everyone down for breakfast), but this Molly is nothing to laugh at. On the other hand: while she’s had time to get used to Bill’s disfigurement, another of her sons has just been dreadfully wounded; Arthur narrowly escaped death a couple books back; Percy knows he was wrong to trust Fudge but still hasn’t returned to the fold; I think even Charlie is now active with the Order thus in danger. And while everyone’s in mortal danger, she has a wedding to put on. Poor Molly: keep the everyday world running while we all know the universe is collapsing. In fact, I find her really true to life here – I know several people who behave a lot like her under much less extreme circumstances, having a good go at making everyone else as miserable as she is (in fact almost everyone I know does this sometimes, including me).

RR, I agree: what are the patterns and why does JKR treat Molly like this? Lily the perfect mother in fact never had time to develop into anything but the doting and fiercely protective mother of a toddler. Many mothers become less ideal as their children grow older and turn out differently than their parents dreamed. And I’m not even going to touch the mothers vs. fathers differences that run through the series! Aunt Petunia, the only other mother we see at length, is Molly’s opposite – utterly blind to her child’s faults and giving in to his every whim. OK, we see Narcissa briefly in HBP and DH, but that comes out of nowhere to prove a point, I think. I’m sure we’ll deal with that later.

I believe this is my first post in the read-throughs, and I am still quite new here. I’ve posted a couple times in response to Gwen’s feminist heroines posts. You will probably hear more from me on Rowling, mothers and fathers.

13 revgeorgeNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 3:04 pm

Selene, very helpful comments. Thanks.

14 Lily LunaNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 4:15 pm

Molly is terrified that her children, in which she includes Harry and Hermione, are going to die, hence the boggart scene in OOTP. She already has had two sons physically scarred on their faces/heads due to Voldemort et al. Now another three of her “children” are planning to drop out of school and go off on a dangerous mission. She also has the tremendous stress of getting everything ready for a large wedding. It’s not surprising she’s acting clingy/naggy and hyper-stressed out. You try handling all that and remaining calm and serene!

I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss Hermione’s feelings about what she had to do to protect her parents. Harry himself realizes what she has sacrificed. She has effectively orphaned herself, placing herself on a similar footing to Harry, so that if she dies on this mission her parents will not mourn her death nor will they even remember her. I don’t think it was easy for her. The tears she probably shed over having to do it would have been done earlier so we don’t see them here, but that does not mean that it was nothing to her.

The chapter title does place an emphasis on the sacrifices Ron and Hermione make for Harry. It also continues the theme, if you will, of disguise in the book. Two chapters earlier we had The Seven Potters where six people disguised themselves as Harry to help protect him. Now the ghoul has allowed himself to be disguised as a sick Ron to protect Ron. Hermione’s parents were diguised as different people to protect them. And then there are the numerous instances of Polyjuice Potion disguise in the book – Harry at the wedding, the trio for the Ministry break-in, Harry and Hermione at Godric’s Hollow, Hermione as Bellatrix at Gringotts with facial changes for Ron.

The ghoul in the pajamas is also the catalyst for Harry accepting the help of his friends and agreeing to let them go with him on his journey, a crucial development.

I am mulling over a post regarding elements of Exodus in the series (Umbridge as the Plague of Frogs, Harry leading the muggleborns out of the Ministry, the camping trip as the wandering in the wilderness, and more). In the meantime, I’ll note that the sock that isn’t Harry’s because he doesn’t support Puddlemere United is patterned with golden bulrushes. Makes me think of Moses in his basket, like Harry in the basket on the doorstep in SS. Of course his Dursley upbringing was no royal upbringing. Now Harry and the Dursleys are through and rejecting the sock is a bit like repudiating them and his childhood, as well as repudiating Molly’s mollycoddling.

At one point there was a lot of speculation as to what happened to Hermione’s cat. In this chapter we see Crookshanks at the Burrow, where he presumably stays for the rest of the year.

Harry thinks regarding his desire to see Godric’s Hollow: “His parents’ graves were only part of the attraction: He had a strong, though inexplicable, feeling that the place held answers for him.” We learn later that GH is a trap that Voldemort has had in place for months. I rather think that Harry’s thoughts here are a repetition of Voldemort’s mind tricks from OOTP, that Voldemort is deliberately trying to implant a desire to go to Godric’s Hollow in him.

Love the foreshadowing of Ron’s comment “Oh well, lucky we’ve got such a large supply of basilisk fangs,then.”

I thought the Delacours being pleasant, helpful guests was a nice change from so many stories where guests like them would be portrayed as obnoxious and spoiled.

15 revgeorgeNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 4:27 pm

‘Ear, ‘ear, Lily Luna!! :)

Hadn’t really thought of the bulrushes on the sock as an indicator towards Moses & the exodus. But brings up a potentially interesting line of thought. I admit my main thought regarding the sock was, if Harry doesn’t support Puddlemere United, then who does he support? Certainly not the Cannons. I can see Harry as many things, but a wizarding world equivalent of a Cubs fan isn’t one of them. ;)

16 revgeorgeNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 4:35 pm

The Delacours is a nice little play on the dangers of prejudice or preconceived notions. When we first see the Delacours we are prejudiced to expect that they’ll be exactly like Fleur was at first, haughty, arrogant, constantly complaining about the deficiencies of British life. But they’re nothing of the sort, not even Fleur’s mother, who we might expect to be so. Kind of a turn around on us, isn’t it?

Gabrielle’s behavior towards Harry is a nice throw back to the early books & Ginny’s behavior toward Harry. I can imagine Ginny mentally kicking herself & thinking, was I ever that sappy & silly & annoying? :)

17 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 4:42 pm

Re: the Molly discussion, just a random remembrance – On my first reading of DH, I thought Molly’s behavior in this chapter so odd, especially in the scene with the sock where she goes from bullish and accusatory to acting like everything’s ok, that I suspected she was Bellatrix polyjuiced.

18 MelodyNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 5:51 pm

Lily Luna, I agree with your thoughts on Molly & Hermione. I would add that Ginny & Arthur have been attacked in prior books as well, not to mention the loss of her brothers in the First War (OOTP p174 & The Lexicon).

By the way, in the scene in OOTP with Molly & the boggart, Molly worried about who would take care of Ron & Ginny if she & Arthur were killed. She definitely saw herself as a member of the Order who expected to put her life on the line, not just do the cooking.

Travis, as a sometimes stressed-out mom, Molly’s sudden change in behavior is (sadly) not so odd to me. I think it just signals a change in tactic from the concerned parent attack (p88) to the divide and conquer approach. Both really should have been covered at DA meetings, don’t you think? ;-) I’ll try the “Bellatrix polyjuiced” defense with my family next time I go Molly on them… It should at least diffuse the situation. :-)

19 R. RossNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 6:32 pm

Why Molly is acting this way in this chapter?
(To add to Melody and Lily Luna’s , comments)
Gideon and Fabian Prewett Molly’s brothers were described as having “fought like heroes” by fellow Order of the Phoenix member Alastor “Mad-Eye” Moody who has just died in battle. The two younger Prewett brothers had also fallen in battle are talked about by Hagrid to Harry years before.
“No one lived after he decided ter kill ‘em, no one except you, an’ he’d killed some of the best witches and wizards of the age – the McKinnons, the Bones, the Prewetts – you were only a baby an’ you lived”
— Hagrid in book one
Mrs. Weasley does not talk mush about her brothers Gideon and Fabian Prewett she must have took their deaths very hard, this could obviously explain some what and excuse some of Mrs. Weasley’s fears and her arguably over-protective fussing and stress-filled-stance with regard to her family recently with George and Bill and her new children her adopted son Harry and Hermione as a “new adopted ” daughter because of Hermione’s recent spells/charms to protect and remove her birth parents from the Dark Lord. The very birthday present that Arthur and Molly present to Harry is the prized family treasure a gift of her dead Fabian’s wristwatch to Harry on his seventeenth birthday, his coming of age day.

At bit on their names: Gideon is a Hebrew name, possibly meaning “mighty warrior”. A figure in the Bible known as Gideon who is a judge known for his faith and sense of justice.
Fabian is the English form of the Latin Fabianus, which was the name given to emancipated slaves in Rome. His name could also be a reference by Rowling to the Fabian Society in UK.

20 miles365No Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 6:38 pm

I wonder if Molly underestimates children. Her big complaint in OotP was that Harry was too young. In PoA she doesn’t want Arthur to warn Harry about Sirius because that would upset Harry. (She reminds me of Dumbledore’s self-proclaimed failing – maybe Molly cares too much.) Sending three teenagers on a secret mission against Voldemort does sound a bit ludicrous. But its clear that Molly’s worry stems from love.

The idea that there was no funeral for Moody because they didn’t find a body seemed strange to me. After all, you don’t need a body for a funeral. I thought perhaps it was Rowling’s response to fans who complained about not having a funeral for Sirius.

21 Library LilyNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 6:47 pm

SPT, you beat me to quoting that paragraph of Travis’s, but while I don’t know enough about the secrets of gnosticism to pick them out of HP, I would say there are strong pointers to the importance of the body in the books. The failure to hold a funeral because of the body’s absence is something, but more meaningful yet is what Harry later does when he finds Mad-Eye’s eye stuck in Umbridge’s door. (I know, I know, we’re not there yet! :) ) Harry risks Ron’s and Hermione’s safety as well as his own to get the eye away from Umbridge; perhaps he does this without thinking it through, but as he holds a private funeral and interment of the eye, I think it would be hard to argue that the body is unimportant there.

Still more meaningful, I think, is the “soul triptych” concept that John Granger talks about. If Harry represents spirit, Hermione mind, and Ron body, then the separation of Ron from the trio and the subsequent reunion are important signs that the body matters.

I’m not saying that the series doesn’t have anything to offer a gnostic; just that I think the evidence is strong for a more orthodox (at least as far as Christianity is concerned) understanding of the parts of the human person.

Revgeorge, you spoke my thoughts on Molly. Thanks! :)

It seems to me that part of being human is that your greatest strengths and greatest weaknesses derive from the same aspects of your nature. A woman’s emotional range is demonstrably both great strength and weakness, and I don’t personally consider Molly-style expressions of emotional weakness as denigrating to women as women.

22 Library LilyNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 6:50 pm

Sorry for the double-post … but I meant, and forgot, to include a note that I’m parroting John or Travis or both on the subject of Mad-Eye’s eye. :)

23 R. RossNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 6:51 pm

sorry correction: Mrs. Weasley does not talk “much” about…

24 Travis PrinziNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 7:04 pm

Library Lily, excellent additional thought on the soul triptych and the problem of Ron’s separation from the trio!

25 FrickaNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 7:30 pm

Just a quick note about the lack of a funeral for Mad-Eye Moody. I may be wrong, but I beleive “Funeral” is the word for when there is an actual body that mourners have to say good-bye to. A Memorial Service, on the other hand, does not require a body. Many people die in places where their body can’t be recovered, such as on the high seas, where the body is placed in the ocean soon after the death. Cremation is also one reason why there might not be a “traditional’ funeral. As we see the Funeral for Dumbledore in HBP, my thought is that the wizarding world is not saying that the body is not important. In Moody’s case, I think the way that all the members of Harry’s rescue group toast the memory of Moody is much like a Memorial to him.
As for Molly and her behavior, I very much agree with Lily Luna and Melody about the stress she is under. I will come back to this later.

26 SPTNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 8:12 pm

Library Lily, regarding the mysteries of Gnosticism, I can spell out the basic points that appear in the books:

Victor Krum and Fleur Delacoeur come from Bulgaria and the south of France. No one who knows anything about the history of Dualist gnosticism can mistake this for anything other than a reference to the Bogomils of Bulgaria and the Cathars of southern France, both Christian Gnostic Dualist beliefs of very similar attributes. There is also a reference to a warlock in Armenia, homeland of the Paulicians, another such group.

There is also an almost direct equivalent to the term “mud-blood” in the history of Gnosticism. Members of the Orthodox Church referred to the Paulicians as ‘bourbouroi’ or “muddy ones”.

After this, the references become more ambiguous, but there are plenty of other suggestive elements. I am not sure whether gnosticism is an actual theme in the books or not. Perhaps the references are merely atmosphere and setting, drawn from JKR’s research into history witchcraft. But there is no mistaking the fact that Bulgaria and the south of France are linked inextricably with Christian Gnostic Dualism.

27 SeleneNo Gravatar September 7, 2009 at 9:17 pm

Re-reading this chapter, I was struck by the quick shifts between the ordinary and the extraordinary. With the knowledge of what’s to come, it seems terribly sad to me. This chapter and the next are the last in which the trio experience normal life before their ties are cut (the wedding being a formal and extraordinary event). Hermione’s sorting books and packing – quite ordinary – and incidentally performing some of her most extraordinary magic ever, quite unnoticed by the boys, who aren’t particularly curious. She breaks off from sorting books to point out to Harry how deep their relationship goes – they didn’t decide to accompany him on his journey mere weeks but years ago. Harry aches to relieve his grief by getting to some action, but is prevented by conventional politeness (he has to stay for the wedding to please Mrs W who has done so much for him) and by the tedious detail of not yet being 17 and still having a trace on him. Everyone’s trying to keep Harry safe yet concerned about the guest list for his birthday party. They’re teetering on the edge.

28 R. RossNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 12:30 am

# 21 Library Lily, good comment you write:
“… Still more meaningful, I think, is the “soul triptych” concept that John Granger talks about. If Harry represents spirit, Hermione mind, and Ron body, then the separation of Ron from the trio and the subsequent reunion are important signs that the body matters…”

I can also imagine seeing that these three each brings their own specialized inner strengths into the fight against Lord T1WshantnotBvoiced (so to speak they all bring to the table) strong qualities to fight and they must rely on each other to prevail against evil. Harry with his soul-power his “Unity-Love” unifying the Order of the Phoenix to trust each other and fight as one.

Ron brings his body the “muscle” Ron’s courage is representing action, his “doing”, examples: the chess game, and later coming back and saving Harry at the pond and killing one of the Horcruxes with Godric Gryffindor’s Sword. I know some will say But, he will run away, yes he did! Ron will have courage to be a man (grow up) and fight his way back this is still “action”.

Hermione she believes that knowledge “mind power” is another tool to fight and kill L.V. Examples there are so many. To start with by securing the books needed to learn about the making of Horcruxes from Dumbleldore’s office, The book given The Tales of Beedle the Bard Hermione employs an Extension Charm, Undetectable when doing statistical planning and organizing of all the books, tent, supplies and camping provisions, all clothing is stored inside her little handbag that is larger inside “within” than the outer world ( by not changing the external size and appearance of the clutch).

As Harry says of this wizard space concept “he loves it.. . . in the movie ” talking about the tent inside expanding to the fit the needs of the family at the Quidditch World Cup Finals in GOF chap 7.

29 Gwen LimbachNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 4:26 pm

JKR wrote Molly the way she did because she needed Molly to be the way she was for the purposes of the story

revgeorge, I know you’re trying to avoid a tangent here, but the literature analyst in me squicks at this logic. If everything in a story is that way “because the author made it that way” then why bother analyzing or even having a discussion about a text? Imagine trying to talk about the significance of something in a novel and the only response you get is “because the author said so.” Obviously for matters of plot that’s true and all well & good, but for the various ways one can look at a text that explanation is frustrating and too dogmatic.

And sorry to continue the tangent (I promise to return!):
Jo didn’t write the characters or the story the way they would’ve wanted it written. I think, I hesitate to say it, this is part of the feminist problem. Jo didn’t write the books as a feminist manifesto.

I think this is a major misunderstanding within literary (and filmic) analysis, especially with gender studies. No one likes when someone else points out a negative attribute of their favorite text. But there’s a difference between one person saying “I don’t like this character because I don’t think she should be that way” and another person saying “The way this character behaves reinscribes negative stereotypes of a non-dominant group, and I don’t believe that stereotypical behavior is what 12 million people should come to identify with this group.”

Back on topic: I agree that the chapter title is certainly meant to bring attention to the sacrifices both Hermione and Ron make to join the Horcrux hunt and to reveal their dedication and friendship. The three of them together have been what gets Harry through his previous adventures and trials, so reinforcing that connection is vital before they set off on the (extended camping trip) quest.

30 jensenlyNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 5:35 pm

Nice summaries, revgeorge and Selene on Molly’s behaviors. Super-stressed, indeed.

I, too, was nicely surprised at JKR’s portrayal of Mr. and Mrs. Delacour. I believe the sentence about Mrs. Delacour being so accomplished with domestic charms is the background which makes Fleur’s ability to manage an entire household of people at Shell Cottage, believable. I was always surprised by Fleur’s skills in the Shell Cottage chapters given how she had been previously described, until someone in another post pointed out that she most likely learned her talents from her mother.

31 jensenlyNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 5:55 pm

I have always thought the Ministry’s rule on underaged magic was quite unfair to wizards/witches living in Muggle households. Those children living in magical homes could get away with underaged magic, with the Ministry relying on their parents to do the policing (the Twins being repeat offenders). But think of poor Harry who practically gets expelled from school twice when the Ministry detects magic in and around a household they know is wholly Muggle.

The pace of our DH review could pick up a tad, for me. Maybe a chapter review every 4-5 days? Either way, it’s loads of fun!

32 jensenlyNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 6:01 pm

It would have been insane to keep using the place as Headquarters now that its protection has become so shaky.

Interesting that the Trio would even consider going back to No. 12 after hearing Mr. Weasley make this comment.

33 revgeorgeNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 6:23 pm

Gwen said, “If everything in a story is that way “because the author made it that way” then why bother analyzing or even having a discussion about a text?”

You’ll note I said it was my simplistic explanation. I was making a slight joke about how often we go the opposite way of simply saying the author said so to saying instead everything the author didn’t say or trying to figure out what they meant or wildly speculating on what they meant. This is where it’s important to deal with the actual text & not what we’d like it to say or think it might say but with what it actually says. Doesn’t eliminate analysis or discussion but grounds it more closely to the text.

34 revgeorgeNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 7:05 pm

Gwen said “…there’s a difference between one person saying “I don’t like this character because I don’t think she should be that way” and another person saying “The way this character behaves reinscribes negative stereotypes of a non-dominant group, and I don’t believe that stereotypical behavior is what 12 million people should come to identify with this group.”

Quite true. There is a difference. It’s also true that one can disagree with a person’s analysis of whether or not something has negative stereotypes attached to it. One can also agree or disagree on the accuracy of certain stereotypes.

Here’s another point: Just because an author draws a character in a specifically stereotypical way doesn’t mean the author agrees with the stereotype nor that they are trying to get people to identify with that stereotypical behavior. They may actually be trying to show people subtly why those stereotypes are wrong or inaccurate. I don’t think we’re meant to identify with the good characters in HP when they express prejudiced behaviors, for instance.

Or could people be stereotyping Mrs. Weasley as a stereotypical character and not actually dealing with her as a whole person? ;)

35 Red RockerNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 7:10 pm

I’ll pick up the torch.

The way Molly behaves reinforces negative stereotypes of women as mothers as hysterical, nagging shrews whose irrational anger borders on emotional abuse. I don’t believe that this stereotypical behaviour is what the millions of readers of the books should identify with women as mothers. Especially when so many of those readers are children.

In addition, the way Mrs. Delacour is redeemed in the Weasley family’s eyes reinforces the negative sterotype of attractive women, to wit that they are somehow suspect unless they pitch in with the domestic tasks, at which point they can be forgiven for their beauty.

Ovens have to be cleaned, meals have to be made, dishes stacked and apple pies served, and more power to those people who do these things. There is nothing wrong with these things. They are in fact pretty essential. But to identify females solely with these tasks is sex role stereotyping of the worst kind. Daddy goes to work and hides his toys in the garage and gets silly when there are sexy ladies around. Mummy stays at home and cooks and cleans and yells a lot. What year is it?

Someone made the argument that JKR is just reflecting reality, and that HP is not a feminist manifesto showing how things should be. Agree totally. HP is not a feminist manifesto. But why did it have to be a homage to June Cleaver?

I’d like to think it was just lazy writing on JKR’s part. Having spun a hundred fascinating characters, she ran out of invention and decided to go for the simplest stereotypes for Mr. and Mrs. Weasley. But there is a part of me which fears that for her this is an acceptable portrait of sex roles in the late 20th century.

36 revgeorgeNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 7:39 pm

Red Rocker, I said JKR wrote a real story with real characters. Whether or not that’s what reality should look like is a whole different matter. And part of the deal in writing in stereotypical imagery is to try to get us to see ourselves in it & get us to examine our stereotypes & prejudices & see whether they hold up to reality or whether they need changing or simply to give a little more thought to what we say & do & what we expect from people in our relationships with them.

I think what JKR does in so much of her writing is to try to subtly get behind our defenses & tweak our noses with the stereotypes & prejudices we hold & get us to think about them critically or from another angle. I think it was Travis who said in his excellent essay in Hogs Head Conversations (now available at greatly reduced prices) that what Rowling does in so many instances is to make us sympathizers with the downtrodden & oppressed in the wizarding world.

And what JKR also does is to show us that even the people who are trying to overcome stereotypes & prejudices still have a lot of their own going on. But if she wrote all those away & gave us perfect exemplars of non-stereotyped, non-prejudicial characters the impact on us wouldn’t have been as great. And if the characters always perfectly expressed an unbiased, un-stereotypical point of view, then they’d come off as phony at the least & as mere shills & ciphers at the worst.

So, I don’t think it’s lazy writing on JKR’s part. Because almost all of her characters are stereotypes or tropes or templates to varying degrees or another. She makes tweaks here & there but she’s building on a scaffolding of literary characters that’s been established long before her. Maybe she could’ve broken out of that & given us something truly visionary. But I doubt then that her work would be as popular as it is.

37 Arabella FiggNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 8:05 pm

Some really good comments here. I don’t have a whole lot to add at this point (and we’re on vacation).

Molly’s exasperating behavior is less about feminist roles than it is about a loving control-freak disintegrating under stress. I feel compassion for her.

As for the ghoul in pajamas, perhaps this is also a pointer to bad cloaked in simple, safe things–family, leaders, government, institutions. Seemingly sleeping, but ready to pounce.

38 R. RossNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 9:19 pm

J. K. Rowling is writing these characters and stories the same way others before her have done such as Dickens wrote to give us a mirror to hold up and see that in varying degrees we all do act just as these characters behave. I am not proud but sometimes I could be as horrible as Umbridge or as stressed out as Molly Weasley, or as scared as little Pip sometimes. The fact that I see this condition is a good point, to begin to change.

39 BethNo Gravatar September 8, 2009 at 11:22 pm

Regarding comments made way, way back (sorry, I’m coming late to this thread) regarding the importance of the body, I think the seven Potters chapter was another indication of that.

The difference between seven friends/protectors of Harry willingly putting their lives and bodies on the line is a wonderful view of incarnated love in direct juxaposition to Voldemort’s squirreling away of his soul into seven mostly inanimate objects. One gets the impression that Voldemort only wants his body back because he has no choice if he wants to continue to operate in the world. But it’s a grudging concession, and he only wants a body if he thinks he can turn it into something invincible and incorruptible…in other words, something that it’s not. I think the body as it really is, frail and fallible and prone to death and decay, frightens and repulses Voldemort. Even his pseudo-”resurrection” (which is not really a resurrection at all) is just a mockery of real bodily resurrection. And his total inability to “get” Harry’s mother’s love (and the way he overlooks the power of that love, time and again, to his own peril) also shows a lack of respect for the body. There’s almost nothing more bodily than mother love for an infant, from the baby’s growth in the womb to the nursing of a child.

I think we’re given all sorts of indicators the good guys in HP value the body while Voldy and his minions don’t (with the obvious elements that they don’t care who they kill, and that Voldy reanimates corpses for his own purposes). Voldemort’s repulsion over his body’s frailty and mortality, and his disdain and underestimation of the power of a love (a love willing to go all the way to bodily sacrifice) make him the true gnostic of the story, especially when you combine all that with his fascination with esoteric dark arts and special, hidden knowledge that he thinks only he possesses.

Sorry for the tangent. Didn’t mean to derail the Molly discussion, which is very interesting!

40 revgeorgeNo Gravatar September 9, 2009 at 12:14 am

Actually, Beth, I think you’re on topic. It’s the rest of us who are off on tangents. :)

41 Arabella FiggNo Gravatar September 9, 2009 at 1:21 am

Beth, you bring up some excellent points about Voldemort’s body-revulsion. I found myself thinking, over the last several days, that despite his gloating over his “victories,” Tom is not a happy person and never would be, even if he did become King of the World. He’s all about reaching a point, but what about after? I sense a profound dissatisfaction and restlessness, never abating.

Despite his ambition and successes, because he is tied to a body, LV can only go so far. What does he do when his body dies? It’s not immortal, simply revived. He must always be dependent upon others to help him stay in bodily form, even to possession a la Quirrelmort.

I’ve never been sure that he thought through the implications of having an “immortal” soul in a mortal body with it’s imperfections and limits.

42 ShimonNo Gravatar September 9, 2009 at 4:35 pm

I’m wondering how much of Molly’s character is a projection of Jo as she sees herself.

43 Arabella FiggNo Gravatar September 9, 2009 at 5:19 pm

You know, Shimon, I wondered that, too.

44 Red RockerNo Gravatar September 9, 2009 at 5:38 pm

I was wondering if it was her own mother.

45 Library LilyNo Gravatar September 9, 2009 at 5:56 pm

SPT, thanks for the clarification on the gnostic references. That is quite fascinating. My guess, given the various arguments for the importance of the body, is that you’re correct in your suggestion that JKR drew these references as atmosphere from the history of witchcraft. It would be interesting, though, to hear her thoughts on placing Durmstrang and Beauxbatons in key gnostic locations.

Beth, fantastic comments on Voldemort’s fear of the body. I loved that.

Revgeorge, I loved your points about Rowling’s use of tropes/stereotypes and their purpose.

46 ShannonNo Gravatar September 9, 2009 at 8:19 pm

First off, I love this discussion of DH — it is nice to have an excuse to visit again….
I love this chapter, and feel sympathy for Mrs. Weasley, as has been stated above. I think it is the panic of knowing that she cannot control what the three will do, that she cannot keep them safe…. so she will put off the inevitable as long as possible. If they cannot scheme, they cannot leave. I think she is frantic, because she knows she is fighting a losing battle. And I am touched, as I often am, by the loyalty shown to Harry by Ron and Hermione. My favorite words of the chapter….. one of my favorite lines in the entire book: “He wanted to tell them what that meant to him, but he simply could not find words important enough”.

As for the pace, I am good with this, but could keep up if the pace quickens.

Shannon

47 SPTNo Gravatar September 9, 2009 at 9:11 pm

Library Lily, I should point out that I incorrectly stated that the Paulicians were called “muddy-ones” by the ‘Orthodox Church’. The Paulicians flourished before the Great Schism and therefore before the Orthodox Chuch existed as a seperate entity.

Also, I may have given the impression that Gnostics were associated with witchcraft. This is misleading, though perhaps not entirely false. Gnostic Dualists were heretics, with highly unorthodox theological ideas. A few of them may have had magical leanings. But mostly they were just theological “weirdos”( to use Vernon Dursley’s term). There were however burned in much the same way as witches.

On the topic of what effect JKR tries to achieve when she writes, I generally feel that she almost always tries to generate some feeling of emotion in the reader, whether it be angst, amusement or indignation. I think this why she uses so many adverbials (“Hermione said indignantly”)—- they are a good way to make sure that the reader knows exactly what emotion each of the characters is feeling at any given moment. It is also an excellent way to mislead the reader, by making him focus on the emotions Harry is feeling instead of the clue that just walked right in front of his eyes.

Beth’s take on the body issue does raise the stakes a little. While I was originally unimpressed with the importance of the lack of a funeral, Voldemort’s fear of bodies is real and it is possible that Travis’s original idea is not so farfetched. There could be some sort of meaning attached to bodies in the book.

48 Library LilyNo Gravatar September 9, 2009 at 10:36 pm

SPT, good clarifications! I didn’t take your statements about gnosticism as leading to the idea that gnostics practiced any form of witchcraft or magic. I should have been more clear myself. JKR used a wide range of historical oddities (and not-so-oddities) to populate her magical history. Some of them even come from the church itself, such as St. Hedwig.

49 EStrunkNo Gravatar September 9, 2009 at 11:47 pm

I have to go back to Molly. We have been looking at what she means to readers – feminist or stereotype. I think the important issue, i.e. her reason for being in the books and, in particular, for being so prominent in this chapter, is her meaning for Harry.
The Weasleys, from the moment they appear on Platform 9 3/4, are the abundant family which Harry has never had. To some degree they are “types” – the father type, the mother type, the big brother(s) types, the little sister types. While Ron often finds his family annoying and stultifying, Harry never does. When Harry first visits the Burrow he loves it. It is “homey” with its central kitchen and many rooms for many people. It is also very different from Privet Drive. Mrs. Weasley, as the full time mother, has the time and inclination to mother Harry also. A woman who worked outside of the home would be pleasing to feminists, but would not have the time to knit Harry sweaters.
As Harry, and we, get to know the Weasleys we learn of their imperfections. Harry is frustrated with Mrs. Weasley’s protectiveness in OTP. He goes behind her back to give the twins money at the end of GOF. By DH Harry is fully aware that the Weasleys are not perfect. But he still feels more at home at the Burrow than on Privet Drive.

Mrs. Weasley’s pestering emphasizes the building danger of DH. A mother who was not worried nearly out of her mind at the prospect of 3 teens hunting down Voldemort would diminish Voldemort. Mrs. Weasley is also the foil to show some of Harry’s strengths and weaknesses. His deep affection for his friends and adopted family is a strength. His regret at the trouble his situation causes them is touching. His reluctance to have others help him is a flaw. And his myopic vision of the whole conflict as primarily between he and Voldemort seems to me to be, strangely, both incorrect and ultimately the key to his willingness to lay down his life. Harry regrets that he has caused Mrs. Weasley so much trouble, ignoring the fact that she is getting ready for a wedding and that she would fight Voldemort with or without him. This is the first step of his eventual journey “into the forest again.”

50 diva_alixNo Gravatar September 10, 2009 at 1:00 am

I’m late to the game and don’t have much to add at the moment other than that I’m enjoying the discussion. I do tend to agree that, while I get annoyed with Molly, as I think we’re meant to, she is worried sick and stressed out of her mind in this chapter, which explains her behavior and I have sympathy for her. I also think it’s clear by the end of the series that Molly is a powerful witch and force to be reckoned with, and she’s clearly freely chosen her life, and finds a certain creative satisfaction in her work.
I agree that point out that Mrs. Delacour in particular is good at household spells is a bit problematic, However, given the situation, another person skilled at household management was definitely an asset, and as others have said it emphasizes the fact that the Delacours seems to be anything but high maintenance or pretentious.
EStrunk I really liked your comments on Molly.

51 Red RockerNo Gravatar September 10, 2009 at 7:17 am

Good points made, above. In no particular order: that we are meant to be annoyed by Molly in this chapter (I find her a bit more sympathetic in the next). That the Weasley’s represent an abundance of family values – both the good and the bad stuff that go with a large, closely-knit family. That Molly seems to get smoe creative satisfaction from her work.

Pace is ok, although if you do the math, at this rate we’re going to be at this for a while, and I wonder if people’s interest will be maintained. Mine would be, I know, but not sure how typical I am.

Point of disagreement: calling Harry’s view of the conflict “myopic” might be correct given the larger perspective, but given the prophecy and the murder of his parents and Voldemort’s repeated attacks on him, both physical and mental, it would be hard for him not to take it a wee bit personally.

The comment about JKR trying to generate emotion with her adverbs: I would put that under either lazy writing, or trying to keep up the interest of a juvenile audience. Nothing wrong with generating emotion; but there are better ways of doing it than with adverbs. And she knows how to do it very well when she pays attention to it.

52 Lily LunaNo Gravatar September 10, 2009 at 9:17 am

The pace has been slower than what we had with HBP, but that’s okay because we’ve had great guest posts from Gwen and Danielle and a slower pace has given us all a chance to enjoy and comment more fully on all the posts. I think Travis should continue to use his judgment on the pace of posting the readthrough chapters, balancing them with other posts, but without letting the pace slow below one chapter a week (and there probably will be weeks we get as many as three chapters a week).

53 revgeorgeNo Gravatar September 10, 2009 at 12:09 pm

EStrunk, great commentary!!

54 carriek9No Gravatar September 11, 2009 at 8:08 pm

I wanted to shout a hearty huzzah after reading RevGeorge’s summation of the “feminist problem” – but did not as I was on the bus. As usual, his comments are insightful, pithy, and funny. The fact is that we all know someone like Molly or have acted like Molly ourseleves; therefore, I fail to see why she should be labeled a stereotype (as though its a false depiction) or JKR should be criticized for depicting her the way she does.

55 revgeorgeNo Gravatar September 11, 2009 at 8:40 pm

Thank you, carriek9! Not everyone would agree, of course, but that’s not unusual. ;)

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