I’ll admit that not much struck me in the re-reading of Chapter 19 of Half-Blood Prince, so I’ll have to leave much of the discussion to the pub. Lots of humor, of course. The Dumbledore/Snape argument is the most interesting part of this chapter, but having that answer now, there isn’t a lot to say about it. It was well set-up, and it served its purpose in the narrative.
The point of contention we might find in this chapter is what is represented by its title, “Elf Tails.” Dobby, the free elf, was more than willing to do whatever Harry asked. But Harry called Kreacher and got Dobby only accidentally. So, Harry uses his slave to do his business.
Probably the best answer to the dilemma is that Harry is still in need of understanding about the evils of house-elf slavery. His wondering if Kreacher would make him a sandwich at the end of Deathly Hallows shows a little progress, since he seemed to have decided against it, and wasn’t inclined to command him. One hopes that what he learned from Dobby’s freedom would have a lasting impact on him and cause him to work over time for their freedom.
Other thoughts and insights about this chapter?
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Dobby’s comment at the very end of the chapter, “And if Dobby does it wrong, Dobby will throw himself off of the topmost tower, Harry Potter!” Well, we all know someone falls from the topmost tower at the end of the book…..
jensenly, I was thinking something similar, that I was noticing lots of foreshadowing. Little pointers that Jo was giving.
Does Dobby also foreshadow his own death here a bit, too?
Yeah, the tower comment hit me, too.
I realized while reading this chapter that Dobby is the most “self-actualized” character in the books (if that makes sense).
I think Harry called Kreacher because he knew Kreacher would do it because he had to. I’m not sure he considered calling Dobby (though I wondererd why, it seemed to make the most sense), because he didn’t consider Dobby a servant who had to do as ordered and Harry felt desperate. Not flattering to Harry, of course, but certainly respecting Dobby.
Remember that Kreacher played a great role in Sirius’ death, so Harry is not disposed to be too nice to him. Kreacher’s report (two chapters later) is hilarious: “Master Malfoy moves with a nobility” etc. etc. I don’t think Harry could have called Dobby in the same way as Kreacher. The ability to call would extend only to his own house-elf. Ideally, Harry would have waited until Mme. Pomfrey released him, then gone down to the kitchens and asked Dobby for help, but he was too impatient.
It’s also interesting that at the moment Harry called Kreacher, Kreacher and Dobby were engaged in a fist fight because Kreacher was insulting Harry. Unlike Dobby, Kreacher does not have trouble speaking ill of his master or giving him looks that “plainly wish him a painful death.” I also was surprised that Peeves was able to track where the elves went and follow them there a moment later. That seems rather unusual.
Dobby’s comment “Dobby is a free house-elf and he can obey anyone he likes and Dobby will do whatever Harry Potter wants him to do!” highlights the conundrum of obedience. The house-elves are legally forced to obey orders, though they can resist them to some extent as Kreacher does (by giving a useless report). Everyone else chooses whether or not to obey, but the level of choice may be constricted depending on prior choices. For example, one can make a free (bad) choice to become a Death Eater, but thereafter “the Dark Lord’s word is law” as Snape says to Narcissa in chapter 2. A Death Eater can disobey Voldemort but disobedience is likely to result in the Death Eater’s own death. Only Snape manages to disobey by going over to the other side yet fool Voldemort sufficiently to prevent Voldy from killing him for disobedience (Voldy does eventually kill him but not for that). Then there are Harry, Snape, Lupin, and the other members of the Order who choose to obey Dumbledore, even when it is hard to see why they should still do so. Their obedience is predicated on a belief in Dumbledore’s good intentions to vanquish Voldemort and a belief in Dumbledore’s intelligence and ability to figure things out and come up with a good plan. Although Harry is hard-pressed in DH to continue to believe in Dumbledore, Snape must have had an even harder time, having been actually asked by Dumbledore to do two terrible things: kill Dumbledore, shortening Dumbledore’s life by at least a few moments or possibly longer, and eventually provide information to Harry that will lead Harry to sacrifice himself.
Another good line is Ron’s “there’s no rule saying only one person at a time can be plotting anything in this place.” — a tipoff to think about what Dumbledore and Snape might be up.
Loved Luna’s Quidditch commentary –it was hilarious. Also funny:
Harry: I want to find McLaggen and kill him.
Madam Pomfrey: I’m afraid that would come under the heading of ‘overexertion.’
Also laughed at the idea of Lavender trying to have lots of in depth chats with Harry about Ron’s feelings.
The number of head injuries Harry gets, you’d think he’d have serious brain damage! Actually the turban of bandages reminded me of Quirrell’s purple turban hiding Voldemort.
Ron has to keep taking “essence of rue.” In addition to whatever medicinal item rue is, it also implies that Ron has to continue to rue his behavior to Hermione and to rue having started a relationship with Lavender Brown.
Interesting point, Lily Luna, about Peeves apparating in exactly the spot where the elves were. Poltergeist’s have a built in GPS? Here’s another “being” that can apparate within the walls of Hogwart’s. I never picked up on that in prior reads – I always imagined Peeves flying or floating everywhere.
Yes and as I recall, Peeves also can make himself invisible.
The illustration for this chapter is a little odd: the house-elves crouching with their larger shadows behind them, as if the light came from low down. Shadowing someone is another term for tailing them. Or perhaps it is a reference to house-elves near-invisibility as they silently do their work and try not to be seen. I also thought of Plato’s cave and the shadows on the wall but that seems a stretch in this regard.
How about Hagrid calling Filch a Squib? That’s ironic, since Hagrid is always getting called names and has his own in-born stigma to deal with. Filch is pretty awful, and of course it’s hard to forgive him for taking Umbridge’s part in OOTP (it’s always been surprising to me that Umbridge was willing to do business with him), but it’s sad that even Hagrid defaults to the slur. You could call him a traitorous wretch, sneaking slimeball, or any other lovely insults, but the half-giant goes for “Squib.”
I think Hagrid was trying to draw Filch’s attention away from Harry et al. Calling him a lousy Squib would sure distract him (plus Filch just insulted him by refusing to acknowledge his status as a teacher).
What I find surprising about Filch is that he can see the castle like a wizard (muggles see a pile of ruins). The question is raised with respect to Mrs. Figg in OOTP whether Squibs can do some things that muggles can’t do, like see dementors. It’s left somewhat ambiguous, but I thought the answer was supposed to be that she couldn’t actually see them, only feel them (although even that is more than muggles, I think, who don’t sense them as creatures, just have a sense of gloom). So if Filch can see the castle and know all its passageways, he must have some power that muggles do not have. I wonder what else Squibs can do that muggles cannot.
[While we're on the point, how is it muggle parents of wizards/witches can get onto platform 9-3/4?]
Llly Luna, you bring up a couple good points.
First, I understand Squibs to be wizards without powers. So while Filch may see all of Hogwarts, he can’t apply any of his own magic to it or anyone there. (Although we know he has his own special “charm.”) Thus Mrs. Figg would be able to see or sense the Dementors, but not do anything about them. How frustrated Squibs must be.
On a side note, speaking of Arabella, every time I saw her name while reading the book, I felt a jolt of identity. Hilarious!
Regarding Muggle parent oddities, I’ve always wondered how Muggle parents can get into Diagon Alley and why they’re so accepting, even proud, of WizWorld. Diagonally, why do Wizarding families have to go to Muggle King’s Cross to get their children to the train? Why can’t they bring them directly to the Hogwarts Platform with a Portkey or something? And since Muggles (as demonstrated in HBP) dress very weirdly in trying to impersonate Muggles and don’t know how to act, wouldn’t they draw a lot of attention at King’s Cross?
Interesting point, Arabella. The wizarding world does seem very schizophrenic at points. They have the decree of secrecy and are always fearful of being found out by Muggles but then have their own train station inside one of the busiest train stations in England! In London no less. Now, why make every wizarding child in the United Kingdom travel to London in order to get on a train to go to someplace in Scotland?!
Of course, King’s Cross plays an integral role in both Jo’s life but also Harry’s life. It is the way between the worlds.
Nice tabby cat, by the way. I’ve got four of them.
Thanks, revgeorge; lucky you. That’s our Casey Rose. Because of my husband’s allergy, she’s our only cat, loved and spoiled by us both. I bet the lap competition at your house is fierce. Ain’t cats grand!
As Barney said in L.M. Montgomery’s The Blue Castle, “I don’t care a hang for any cat that hasn’t stripes.”
You’d think seeing so many examples of muggles in London, plus their children dressing in muggle clothing over the holidays, that they would have an idea how to dress. I think the idea of wizards not knowing how to dress is something Rowling came up with but it never quite held together across the series.
There is one aspect of the Dumbledore/Snape argument which doesn’t work very well — it’s hard to reconcile with Snape’s Unbreakable Vow! Think about it; for the plot to work, Snape has to be able to credibly threaten to renege on his promise to Dumbledore, even though they both know he’d later confirmed it with the Unbreakable Vow. (This is also a problem with Dumbledore’s line, “Severus… please…” in the climactic chapter.)
During the interlibrum, my faith in Snape’s loyalty was badly shaken by that particular plot problem. Is there some way to rationalize it, perhaps?
LL, I have thought, listening to Mr. Weasley talking about Muggles, that to him they are like the stone age tribes of the Andaman islands to an anthropologist: fascinating, to be protected and respected, but different from him, so removed from him on the evolutionary scale as to be not quite human. Given that perspective, given the sheer lack of underlying similarities, his attempts to dress like them, or to use their tools, would inevitably be clumsy, like Margaret Mead dressing up like a Samoan woman.
Steve, Snape vowed to Narcissa 1) to watch over Draco, 2) to protect Draco from harm, and 3) to commit the deed Voldemort asked Draco to do if necessary, if it looked like Draco would fail. This means Snape can back out of killing Dumbledore and still survive IF either Draco does it instead (which reneges on Snape’s promise to Dumbledore but does not violate the vow as the harm to Draco’s soul does not seem to be encompassed in the type of harm Narcissa contemplates) OR someone else like the Carrows or Greyback does it before Snape gets up there. By the time Snape gets there and both Draco and the others have not killed Dumbledore, Snape has three choices left: shove Draco forward and try to incite him to do it (but I don’t think he would do that when Draco has already backed out; also he ran up there as soon as he knew what was going on, so that looks like he takes seriously the prevent Draco from doing it part), allow the unbreakable vow to kill him (and then presumably one of the Carrows or Greyback would kill Dumbledore), or kill Dumbledore himself. Dumbledore’s plea to Snape suggests either that Dumbledore senses Snape is seriously considering the second option (just dying himself and leaving Dumbledore to the mercy of the others) OR he’s trying to make it look good to trick Harry and the others, like he’s pleading for Snape to help him and then Snape kills him instead.
Snape’s comment to Dumbledore that maybe he has changed his mind, could mean that he’s threatening to just let Draco do it. Or it could just be a petulant reaction to Dumbledore’s refusing to tell him what he’s talking about with Harry during all his meetings with him. Snape does seem to act like the jealous older brother who resents the father’s seeming favoritism of the prodigal younger brother (ironically, since Snape was once the prodigal son who returned himself).
Or it could be the agonized second thoughts of an honorable man unwillingly committed to murdering another, one he also vowed to serve unfailingly. I’m sure Severus never contemplated the kind of service Dumbledore committed him too. In a way, Dumbldore betrayed Severus’ service.
RR, I would tend to agree with you about Mr. Weasley and Muggles. Yet, it niggled at me through the whole series that this supposed expert was such a doofus on his area of expertise. You’d have thought he’d have been more savvy and would have kept constantly current, as he was the go-to guy. And given that he has Muggles such as Hermione and half-Muggles such as Harry at close proximity, you’d think he’d spend time questioning them. I mean, the guy coudn’t even manage the Underground.
AF, there is a big difference between studying things in abstract, and studying them in the functional and the concrete. For example, studying car steering systems, food chemistry, and human reproduction doesn’t necessarily equip you to be a good driver, chef or lover.
Arabella, I quite agree with you regarding Dumbledore’s betrayal of Severus’ friendship and service. Indeed, I’ve been hard put to use the term friendship as to the two of them. Notwithstanding Dumbledore’s trust in and protection of Severus, he doesn’t really act like a friend. More master and servant. I think Severus does have agonized second thoughts and/or greatly resents what he has been asked to do, but his comment in the particular circumstances doesn’t have much to back it up unless he’s going to let Draco do it or die himself. The only other option I see is to try to hold Draco off long enough that Dumbledore dies first from the cursed ring or get Dumbledore to commit suicide (AK himself with Severus’ wand if that’s possible). But they’d have to get Harry or Minerva or someone to play along and accuse Severus to get the benefits vis a vis Voldemort.
Red Rocker, of course there’s a difference between the abstract and reality. But Muggles were Mr. Weasley’s passion and his work, and he was so interested in everything Muggle, you’d think that passion would have expressed itself into actual interaction with Muggledom in a more concrete way. When I have a curiosity and passion about something, I read extensively, question people, or try to experience it myself, etc. It seems to me, Weasley should have been infiltrating the Muggle world a lot, with a lot more hands-on knowledge of how it functioned. Dumbledore did; heck, even Hagrid did, on missions for Dumbledore. There were Muggles and half-Muggles in the Order to aid him; he shouldn’t have been so inept and ignorant. So was Weasley merely a dabbler with a penchant for charming Muggle objects of which he was woefully clueless? As much as I love Mr. Weasley, not impressive at all, as Hermione might say.
Lily Luna, it occurred to me after I wrote, that Severus gave loyal servitude to two oppositional masters who expected him to murder on their behalf. How could the poor guy win? Really sad.
Dumbledore betrayed Snape? Hmmm, why does that sound familiar?
Dumbledore’s Defender, on the scene!
I’ve probably missed too much of this conversation, and I’ve only got a quick minute in a break to comment, but I wanted to re-hash once again Dumbledore’s position, just as an answer to Snape’s whining about betrayal and all that, since the whole “Dumbledore betrayed Snape” has popped up a few times in this thread.
1. Dumbledore did not make Harry a Horcrux.
2. Dumbledore arranged everything so that Harry would be presented with the choice to sacrifice himself. But there never was any question that Harry would come to a time in his life when he had to make that choice.
3. Dumbledore knew at the moment Snape complained of betrayal (“we were doing this to protect Lily’s son, blah blah blah”) that Harry would make it, would live beyond his death. In other words, they were still protecting Lily’s son.
4. Dumbledore needed Snape not to know these things, because Snape was in constant communication with Voldemort.
5. Also, because he needed Harry not to know these things. I imagine, Snape-on-deathbed or not, that Dumbledore intended Snape to give Harry memories, so that Harry would hear them straight from Dumbledore what the plan was. But Harry couldn’t know he’d make it, or it wouldn’t be a willing sacrifice.
So, bottom line for me: Dumbledore honored his word to Snape that they were protecting Lily’s son.
Did he betray Snape to ask him to kill him? I don’t think so. I don’t think Dumbledore honestly believed Snape’s soul would be harmed by the murder (and I don’t think it was). Hard to do? Absolutely. But a brilliant strategic move once the death curse had taken over Dumbledore and was going to have its way in a matter of weeks or months anyway.
Forgive me – I need to return to writing Dumbledore’s hagiography now. Just call me Elphias “Dogbreath” Doge.
I will admit this much – had the freaky blood transfusion in the graveyard not happened, resulting in Harry’s double-bond which would have kept him alive, though he was AK’d, I think Dumbledore would have arranged things in a similar fashion, because Harry would have needed to die – permanently – for there to be any chance of defeating Voldemort.
Whether or not Dumbledore actually betrayed Snape, I think Snape felt betrayed, so in Snape’s mind it was the same thing. He looked at DD with hatred and anger when he had to kill him on the Astronomy Tower, and I honestly think he hated DD at that moment for putting him in the postion to do it; I got a really strong feel of that this go-round, especially understanding the plans revealed in The Prince’s Tale.
Also, in TPT, Snape is shocked at DD’s cool calculation re Harry’s death (“raising him like a pig to the slaughter”–something like that, don’t have the book here). Again, Snape may have felt betrayed in DD’s keeping Lily’s son safe to die, and that he had unknowingly assisted that purpose.
Remember Snape did not know the full plans. So we may be talking about the power of perception vs. truth.
I was wondering if the topic was going to wake you up.
I thought I understood this but I’m getting confused.
Why did Harry have to be a willing sacrifice? I mean, it’s very moving and all that, and a very effective piece of writing, but strictly speaking, was it necessary?
Because as far as I understand it, based on what Dumbledore says, Harry survives the AK because (through the transfusion) a part of Lily’s enchantment lives on in Voldemort, that “his body keeps her sacrifice alive.”
So Harry would have survived regardless of if he went willingly or kicking and screaming?
I think it may have to do with the deeper magic of which Lewis spoke. Maybe Rowling simply thought a willing sacrifice would be more efficacious. It would perhaps also have to do with Harry’s desire to return from King’s Cross to finish things as it were after the horcrux instead him was destroyed. Just some thoughts.
Doesn’t the fact that Harry was willing to die extend the power of that sacrifice to everyone at Hogwarts? That doesn’t make his attitude necessary to the whole operation, but it is a powerful thing.
SchoolMarm has it right – everyone involved in the battle was protected because, as Harry said, “I did what my mother did.” It was the choice that protected everyone else.
Oh, I thought that everyone was protected from Voldemort’s wand blasts because the Elder wand wouldn’t work properly for him – seeing as how it properly belonged to Harry, who had defeated Draco, who had liberated it from Dumbledore, rather than to Voldemort, who had liberated it from Dumbledore’s stiff hands.
Not trying to minimize Harry’s sacrifice here, because of course that is the whole point, to do the right thing rather than the easy thing. But knowing what impact Harry’s choices had does have a bearing on how we interpret Dumbledore’s actions, re: was he protecting Harry, or bringing him up for slaughter?
I agree with Travis completely on the Dumbledore issue.
As far as Arthur Weasley and his absurd incompetence with all things Muggle, I think its primary intention was to be humorous, which was done well I thought. I think the point was that it was supposed to be absurd, rather than how a reasonable person would actually act.
The elder wand not working properly just meant Voldy didn’t see any extra special power with it; it just worked about as well as his old wand and Harry’s friends would not have been protected from his spells based on that. Harry’s willing sacrifice is what gives his friends real protection, just as he was protected by his mother’s sacrifice. Harry making a willing sacrifice (versus an unwilling or accidental one) isn’t necessary to the destruction of Voldy but is very helpful.
The betrayal I was referring to is that Dumbledore acts like he’s Severus’ friend and protector, and master, but he betrays this friendship by asking him to kill him, something Severus thought he had long since left behind and doubtless hoped he’d never have to do again (if in fact he had ever done it before which is not a given). AND Dumbledore’s manner of asking, as if his own comfort, a few minutes less pain, were more important than Severus’ soul, plus the implication that Draco’s soul is more important than Severus’ is like a slap in the face. In the Pensieve in GOF Dumbledore tells the Wizengamot that Severus is “now no more a Death Eater than I am.” But he doesn’t seem to really believe it, because he acts as if he thinks Severus wouldn’t mind being asked to kill again. Now, I know the real purpose of having Severus kill him isn’t to spare himself pain but to ensure that someone loyal to him gets appointed as headmaster when the Death Eaters take over so that the students have some level of protection, and that Severus is the ONLY person who can fulfill that role, but I think there are kinder ways he could have asked Severus and he could have explored alternative plans, like faking Severus killing him.
Lily Luna, thanks for your thoughts (and sorry for the late response)! The main problem I see with Snape threatening to stand aside and let Draco do it: at the time, none of the adults believed that he could succeed. Someone on alt.fan.harry-potter once said that Dumbledore evaluated Draco’s chances of killing him as about equal to Wile E. Coyote’s likelihood of actually killing the Road Runner —
which called up images of Draco sending off for an “Acme Cursed Necklace”, a bottle of “Acme Poisoned Mead”, etc.!
Although in that analogy, Draco himself should have been the one to touch the cursed necklace, drink the poisoned mead, etc.!
Maybe, but Dumbledore was being kind of cavalier about Draco’s chances. Dumbledore would have been smart enough not to open a strange package brought him by a glassy-eyed Katie Bell, but if Slughorn had indeed given him the mead for Christmas, he would have drunk it unsuspectingly. And Draco does indeed manage to disarm Dumbledore; only Draco’s conscience stops him from actually doing the Avada Kadavra.
I think Snape was just resentful of what he was asked to do and angry at Dumbledore for making him promise. It may not have been credible for him to threaten not to try to protect Draco, but he could have credibly threatened to let the other Death Eaters do it by not being there himself or to let himself die rather than carry out Dumbledore’s plan. It seems to me that Dumbledore is really unappreciative of the power of Snape’s conscience that he has this much resistance to killing someone who is dying anyway and is asking him to do it.