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	<title>Comments on: Garuda: Hindu Phoenix</title>
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		<title>By: olivia jot</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/garuda-hindu-phoenix-398/comment-page-1/#comment-457950</link>
		<dc:creator>olivia jot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What does Garuda mean for Tahi people as their national symbol?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does Garuda mean for Tahi people as their national symbol?</p>
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		<title>By: particle.mania</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/garuda-hindu-phoenix-398/comment-page-1/#comment-421684</link>
		<dc:creator>particle.mania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/06/11/garuda-hindu-phoenix/#comment-421684</guid>
		<description>It is first of all necessary to realize that Hinduism is not a religion but, like the Chinese folk religion, just a collection of henotheistic beliefs united just by belief in trinity(creation,preservation,destruction). Hinduism is a widely diverse and acceptable tradition. And as much it goes about Indonesia and Thailand, Indosphere or Sphere of Indian cultural influence stretches from Afghania and Balochistan to East Indies(Indonesia) and Indo-China(till Cambodia) and from Tibet to Srilanka. Because these were as much part of India in ancient times as much were kingdoms of present-day India were, although boundaries did change from time to time.

Secondly, Indian culture has its completely own taxonomy of magical beasts which is comparable but not identifiable with that of mediterenean or sinosphere (both themselves are not identifiable. Even Fenghuang has nothing to do with fire like phoenix but is just  a chimera.) The whole range includes all types of nagas (from serpents to dragons), suparnas (gryffins to angels), etc.

Thirdly, there is no species (obviously mythical) like garuda but he is the king of &quot;suparnas&quot;. And even a cultural english-speaking Indian translates Garuda as gryffin and not phoenix, although its neither. The most exact reference you can get about the qualities of garuda in west is Digimon, because in season 1 there is a garudamon with more or less same as garuda.

Fourthly, the nearest reference to phoenix i could get was India itself. India, historically for its wealth, was known as golden bird (national personification or animalification, like dragon for China or bear for Russia) and especially in many poetries of sultanate era it was mentioned about the golden bird rising from ashes left by raiders, expressing hope for renaissance.

Fifthly, whatsoever it may be, for the purpose of cross-culturalism and entertainment in fiction, the comparision is fantastic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is first of all necessary to realize that Hinduism is not a religion but, like the Chinese folk religion, just a collection of henotheistic beliefs united just by belief in trinity(creation,preservation,destruction). Hinduism is a widely diverse and acceptable tradition. And as much it goes about Indonesia and Thailand, Indosphere or Sphere of Indian cultural influence stretches from Afghania and Balochistan to East Indies(Indonesia) and Indo-China(till Cambodia) and from Tibet to Srilanka. Because these were as much part of India in ancient times as much were kingdoms of present-day India were, although boundaries did change from time to time.</p>
<p>Secondly, Indian culture has its completely own taxonomy of magical beasts which is comparable but not identifiable with that of mediterenean or sinosphere (both themselves are not identifiable. Even Fenghuang has nothing to do with fire like phoenix but is just  a chimera.) The whole range includes all types of nagas (from serpents to dragons), suparnas (gryffins to angels), etc.</p>
<p>Thirdly, there is no species (obviously mythical) like garuda but he is the king of &#8220;suparnas&#8221;. And even a cultural english-speaking Indian translates Garuda as gryffin and not phoenix, although its neither. The most exact reference you can get about the qualities of garuda in west is Digimon, because in season 1 there is a garudamon with more or less same as garuda.</p>
<p>Fourthly, the nearest reference to phoenix i could get was India itself. India, historically for its wealth, was known as golden bird (national personification or animalification, like dragon for China or bear for Russia) and especially in many poetries of sultanate era it was mentioned about the golden bird rising from ashes left by raiders, expressing hope for renaissance.</p>
<p>Fifthly, whatsoever it may be, for the purpose of cross-culturalism and entertainment in fiction, the comparision is fantastic.</p>
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		<title>By: Sundar</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/garuda-hindu-phoenix-398/comment-page-1/#comment-156196</link>
		<dc:creator>Sundar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 07:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/06/11/garuda-hindu-phoenix/#comment-156196</guid>
		<description>Garuda is not the Indian Airline. It is Indonesian. It is a pre-Islamic legacy from Indonesia&#039;s Hindu era.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garuda is not the Indian Airline. It is Indonesian. It is a pre-Islamic legacy from Indonesia&#8217;s Hindu era.</p>
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		<title>By: praveen</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/garuda-hindu-phoenix-398/comment-page-1/#comment-137994</link>
		<dc:creator>praveen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/06/11/garuda-hindu-phoenix/#comment-137994</guid>
		<description>I think all the readers here look at myth of garuda using a western eye.There are 1000&#039;s of stories of beings like Garudas,Nagas,Yakshas,Boothaganas,vanaras,vitras etc.Mythology,religion,arts,crafts, fiction and history were all intermingled in india and there was never an attempt to seperate each.For eg yoga was and is still is an part of hindu life.It was never seen as a science in itself unless west came over.Yoga and Tantra,Mantra,purana,astrology,grammer, etc are all part of our cultural consiousness.About garuda there is garuda purana.Its meant to be fiction cum religios text cum mythology.We have gods with human body but lion head(Narasimha),Gods with human body but Elephant head(Ganesa),Gods with human body but eagle head(Garuda),Human body with monkey head(Hanuman),Human body with boar head(Varaha),Human body with abilty to change to snake (Naga),Human body with bear head etc etc.Hindusim was like american hollywood fiction might ten times plus the power of philosophy,science,technology,architecture etc.Its not possible to seperate one from the other.Its too old and too intermingled to seperate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think all the readers here look at myth of garuda using a western eye.There are 1000&#8217;s of stories of beings like Garudas,Nagas,Yakshas,Boothaganas,vanaras,vitras etc.Mythology,religion,arts,crafts, fiction and history were all intermingled in india and there was never an attempt to seperate each.For eg yoga was and is still is an part of hindu life.It was never seen as a science in itself unless west came over.Yoga and Tantra,Mantra,purana,astrology,grammer, etc are all part of our cultural consiousness.About garuda there is garuda purana.Its meant to be fiction cum religios text cum mythology.We have gods with human body but lion head(Narasimha),Gods with human body but Elephant head(Ganesa),Gods with human body but eagle head(Garuda),Human body with monkey head(Hanuman),Human body with boar head(Varaha),Human body with abilty to change to snake (Naga),Human body with bear head etc etc.Hindusim was like american hollywood fiction might ten times plus the power of philosophy,science,technology,architecture etc.Its not possible to seperate one from the other.Its too old and too intermingled to seperate</p>
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		<title>By: maidros</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/garuda-hindu-phoenix-398/comment-page-1/#comment-106145</link>
		<dc:creator>maidros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 03:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/06/11/garuda-hindu-phoenix/#comment-106145</guid>
		<description>&quot;The serpents from which Garuda rescued his mother were the Nagas, Hindu symbols of evil and clearly the inspiration for Voldemortâ€™s snake, Nagini.&quot;

There is a small problem with this statement.  Garuda&#039;s mother (Vinuta - the mother of birds) gambles away her freedom to Kadru - `mother of snakes&#039; on a trivial matter.  After that, with the birth of Garuda - the prince of birds, Garuda seeks to free his mother from slavery, and is asked to get ambrosia, which he does.  *Some*, not all, of the `naga&#039; try to sabotage Garuda.  But the `nagas&#039; - which in this context simply means `snakes&#039; (the collective version of all snakes of all kinds (perhaps you could say `snake race&#039;?)) are *NOT* symbols of evil.  There are tons of `naga&#039; which are good - in fact, some of the `naga&#039; are part of the `cosmos maintenance squad&#039;.  `Nagini&#039; is the female version of `naga&#039;, not necessarily a cobra.  It can refer to any female snake.
Regards,
Maidros</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The serpents from which Garuda rescued his mother were the Nagas, Hindu symbols of evil and clearly the inspiration for Voldemortâ€™s snake, Nagini.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is a small problem with this statement.  Garuda&#8217;s mother (Vinuta &#8211; the mother of birds) gambles away her freedom to Kadru &#8211; `mother of snakes&#8217; on a trivial matter.  After that, with the birth of Garuda &#8211; the prince of birds, Garuda seeks to free his mother from slavery, and is asked to get ambrosia, which he does.  *Some*, not all, of the `naga&#8217; try to sabotage Garuda.  But the `nagas&#8217; &#8211; which in this context simply means `snakes&#8217; (the collective version of all snakes of all kinds (perhaps you could say `snake race&#8217;?)) are *NOT* symbols of evil.  There are tons of `naga&#8217; which are good &#8211; in fact, some of the `naga&#8217; are part of the `cosmos maintenance squad&#8217;.  `Nagini&#8217; is the female version of `naga&#8217;, not necessarily a cobra.  It can refer to any female snake.<br />
Regards,<br />
Maidros</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Prinzi</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/garuda-hindu-phoenix-398/comment-page-1/#comment-104428</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Prinzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/06/11/garuda-hindu-phoenix/#comment-104428</guid>
		<description>Ahhh...NOW I see what you&#039;re getting at.  Thanks for the clarification, &lt;strong&gt;Trish&lt;/strong&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhh&#8230;NOW I see what you&#8217;re getting at.  Thanks for the clarification, <strong>Trish</strong>.</p>
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		<title>By: Trish</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/garuda-hindu-phoenix-398/comment-page-1/#comment-104420</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/06/11/garuda-hindu-phoenix/#comment-104420</guid>
		<description>Something that is a deity may also be a part of folklore that expressed a viewpoint at odds with the core beliefs of that religion, or of the people who believe in that religion, whether &quot;institutionalized&quot; or not. It is a mistake to believe that all early mythology and folklore stem from what a people believes and values.  That leads to often erroneous conclusions, such as the statement that &quot;Illapa (lightning) was an Inca god.&quot;  (The Incas worshipped the sun; they were not pantheistic.)

Let&#039;s take Christianity as a case in point.  Are you familiar with the story of La Befana?  In the tale, she was invited to join the Magi to bring gifts to the baby Jesus.  She refused, but later repented, and went looking for them.  She found neither the Magi nor the Child, but to this day goes about giving gifts to every child she meets in the hopes it is the right One.
That&#039;s folklore.  As folklore, it simply tells a story about a sort of female Santa Claus.  Is it also a story about what Christians believe and value?
La Befana repented of an error--and was punished with eternal exile.  This is completely at odds with the Christian belief in repentance and forgiveness. 
But the story involves Jesus.  So is it a part of the Christian religion?

I think you see what I mean.  And my original point was referring to the appearance of the Garuda in countries that are not primarily Hindu.  It&#039;s possible that Hinduism took the Garuda from folklore, not that its appearance in non-Hindu countries necessarily stems from religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something that is a deity may also be a part of folklore that expressed a viewpoint at odds with the core beliefs of that religion, or of the people who believe in that religion, whether &#8220;institutionalized&#8221; or not. It is a mistake to believe that all early mythology and folklore stem from what a people believes and values.  That leads to often erroneous conclusions, such as the statement that &#8220;Illapa (lightning) was an Inca god.&#8221;  (The Incas worshipped the sun; they were not pantheistic.)</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s take Christianity as a case in point.  Are you familiar with the story of La Befana?  In the tale, she was invited to join the Magi to bring gifts to the baby Jesus.  She refused, but later repented, and went looking for them.  She found neither the Magi nor the Child, but to this day goes about giving gifts to every child she meets in the hopes it is the right One.<br />
That&#8217;s folklore.  As folklore, it simply tells a story about a sort of female Santa Claus.  Is it also a story about what Christians believe and value?<br />
La Befana repented of an error&#8211;and was punished with eternal exile.  This is completely at odds with the Christian belief in repentance and forgiveness.<br />
But the story involves Jesus.  So is it a part of the Christian religion?</p>
<p>I think you see what I mean.  And my original point was referring to the appearance of the Garuda in countries that are not primarily Hindu.  It&#8217;s possible that Hinduism took the Garuda from folklore, not that its appearance in non-Hindu countries necessarily stems from religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Prinzi</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/garuda-hindu-phoenix-398/comment-page-1/#comment-104360</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Prinzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/06/11/garuda-hindu-phoenix/#comment-104360</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Trish&lt;/strong&gt;, fair points.  I&#039;m guessing you&#039;re more knowledgeable about anthropology than I, so I&#039;ll not argue the point much, but rather offer just a few other thoughts from my own historical and mythological studies:

The basic principle that &quot;culture&quot; stems from &quot;cult&quot; (what the people worship) is kind of important to all this.  If we&#039;re talking about &quot;religion&quot; as a systematic expression of beliefs and their related rituals, then sure, we could try to parse out exactly where the Garuda story comes from, whether from a folk tale or from Hinduism.  But I don&#039;t think it&#039;s easy to draw clear lines like that.  Early mythologies and folktales stem from what the people believe and value, which is a religious concept, whether institutionalized or not.  

One can very well trace the interconnectedness of culture and religious belief - they&#039;re deeply intertwined (the rise of Marduk as oppose to Tiamat in Sumerian-Babylonian mythology, for example, is directly related to cultural transition from agricultural to military state).

In any case, where are you going with the original point?  If &quot;Garuda&quot; is &quot;one of the three principal animal deities in the Hindu Mythology&quot; (see Sanya article), then what is to be gained by suggesting it is otherwise?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Trish</strong>, fair points.  I&#8217;m guessing you&#8217;re more knowledgeable about anthropology than I, so I&#8217;ll not argue the point much, but rather offer just a few other thoughts from my own historical and mythological studies:</p>
<p>The basic principle that &#8220;culture&#8221; stems from &#8220;cult&#8221; (what the people worship) is kind of important to all this.  If we&#8217;re talking about &#8220;religion&#8221; as a systematic expression of beliefs and their related rituals, then sure, we could try to parse out exactly where the Garuda story comes from, whether from a folk tale or from Hinduism.  But I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s easy to draw clear lines like that.  Early mythologies and folktales stem from what the people believe and value, which is a religious concept, whether institutionalized or not.  </p>
<p>One can very well trace the interconnectedness of culture and religious belief &#8211; they&#8217;re deeply intertwined (the rise of Marduk as oppose to Tiamat in Sumerian-Babylonian mythology, for example, is directly related to cultural transition from agricultural to military state).</p>
<p>In any case, where are you going with the original point?  If &#8220;Garuda&#8221; is &#8220;one of the three principal animal deities in the Hindu Mythology&#8221; (see Sanya article), then what is to be gained by suggesting it is otherwise?</p>
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		<title>By: Trish</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/garuda-hindu-phoenix-398/comment-page-1/#comment-104356</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/06/11/garuda-hindu-phoenix/#comment-104356</guid>
		<description>Travis--
I don&#039;t think I agree with you.  Clearly there is an interface, but they are two different things.  Jewish culture, for example, is not the same thing as Judaism.  A Christmas tree is not a religious symbol.

It&#039;s all too easy for educated people to make the mistake of supposing that primitive religion and culture are one and the same.  It has led to a great deal of condescension in the areas of anthropology and folklore, and sometimes some very egregious errors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Travis&#8211;<br />
I don&#8217;t think I agree with you.  Clearly there is an interface, but they are two different things.  Jewish culture, for example, is not the same thing as Judaism.  A Christmas tree is not a religious symbol.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all too easy for educated people to make the mistake of supposing that primitive religion and culture are one and the same.  It has led to a great deal of condescension in the areas of anthropology and folklore, and sometimes some very egregious errors.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Prinzi</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/garuda-hindu-phoenix-398/comment-page-1/#comment-104343</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Prinzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/06/11/garuda-hindu-phoenix/#comment-104343</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d want to suggest that it&#039;s not a helpful dichotomy to make such a sharp distinction between religion and culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d want to suggest that it&#8217;s not a helpful dichotomy to make such a sharp distinction between religion and culture.</p>
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