by Travis
This video is particularly interesting in light of conversation we’ve had here about authorial intent and information revealed outside of the seven-book canon. (HT to HogPro)
I really have to get that podcast done on authorial intent.
Harry Potter News and Commentary
by Travis
This video is particularly interesting in light of conversation we’ve had here about authorial intent and information revealed outside of the seven-book canon. (HT to HogPro)
I really have to get that podcast done on authorial intent.
Previous post: SoG at Wikipedia!
Next post: Around the Common Room
{ 16 comments… read them below or add one }
Look forward to it!
-Mary
The question remains whether Jo Rowling answering all the questions and solving so many of the mysteries through Q&A rather than through storytelling has in affect stilled the wind from Harry Potter’s sails. If she is going to “explain” things – even when they appear to be outside the canon and merely in her head or in a file box somewhere, does that actually end up diminishing the books?
We see this happening all ready with the announcement that Sugar Quill is downsizing and Mugglenet’s podcast is ending in April.
I think that since so many appear to be accepting at face value all that she says about the books (after all – she is the author!) that there has been a serious lack of pushback from those who read the books not just from a fan-point of view but from a literary point of view.
We’re hearing a lot of a sort of “gossipy” stuff about the characters, but not the deeper view of the books that might even be outside the author’s control. Is she in fact helping her books by commenting on things so freely or in fact, as I said earlier, taking the wind out of the sails of her creation.
I have found it interesting to see the pull-back around the HP commentary world and have felt it myself. Why discuss the mysteries and musings of the series when we can just ring up Jo and have her explain things to us?
As I’ve written over at John Granger’s site, Bob Dylan has just refused for years and years and years to discuss the meaning of his songs. He’ll talk about his influences, but he won’t explain the songs to us. Even in his autobiography he spent far more time illustrating how he writes and virtually no time explaining the meaning of songs. But when he is asked what he believes in (as in his personal faith) he says it’s in the songs. But he won’t explain it – so guess what. If you care about it, you pour over the songs to try to understand. People write doctoral theses on Dylan’s work. But you are going to come up wanting if you think you are going to get him to explain the meaning of “Like a Rolling Stone.”
The fun remains then in trying to figure it out (and the songs have many layers and our responses to them have many layers) and Dylan fans get together (especially at his concerts) discussing these topics, using the “canon” of his works to back them up on what ever thesis they are working at. Books are even written and more conversation goes on – and still Dylan says very little. What he does say is still often open to interpretation. It is masterful.
I think that is the better way for authors and writers to go. Either the work stands on its own or it does not. If you have more to tell, than go write it but don’t tell us what you might write or not write. It isn’t true until it’s in prose. Until then the author might have his or her own opinions, but it might not means they are right.
All that being said, I do think the author has a role after the work is done – and that is to continue producing more work, not providing commentary to the work all ready completed. That is the work of the readers. The art of storytelling is that the reader also participates in the “truth” of what is happening. It’s not just “fiction” – if it’s good, it’s true.
Don’t get me wrong here – I am as interested in the things she’s been saying as anyone else. But now looking back has it really helped me want to dig deeper into the books? I have to say, no, it has not – and in fact, has done quite the opposite.
When I was working on my BFA in Creative Writing we used to have discussions about the role of the writer. We used to have teams of writers come and read their works. We were fascinated in the crafting of the work (as I was fascinated in reading Dylan’s insights on how he created some of his works), which is more of a mentoring role for writers. I can remember combing through F. Scott Fitzgerald’s masterpiece, The Great Gatsby, and examining it to see how he did it. It would have been highly inappropriate for Fitzgerald to suddenly, even magically appear in the classroom and start explaining what happened behind the scenes (yes, we know Gatsby’s a gangster, but perhaps not every reader would know that it would not have helped the book if Fitzgerald pointed that out to us) or whatever happened to Nick (“he bought a condo in Malibu and raised chickens”). What makes that book great is that it stands on its own – whatever we need is in the text and if it’s not there, then it doesn’t exist. There might have been more in Fitzgerald’s head, but it never came out on to the page and so it doesn’t exist. The genius of it was that we had to find the answers ourselves, not wait for the author to explain.
In fact, we were taught that it was a no-no to explain. In workshops the writer’s whose work was being reviewed had to maintain silence. It was an extraordinary experience, to listen as others around you reviewe your work within guidelines (you had to discuss it from the text, from what was or wasn’t there). But you could not explain anything. You to sit there and listen. Then you went home and did your rewrites. But the work finally had to stand on its own.
I can remember when my thesis (a novel) was being reviewed before I was awarded my degree. Two professors started arguing over the meaning of some of the characters or something and I sat there – of course, in silence – as they argued. It was exhilarating to hear the debate about the meaning (especially since one was a skeptic agnostic and the other a Buddhist).
Okay, I’m signing off now. I do look forward to that podcast, Travis.
Happy New Year,
Mary
Just listened to the trailer. JKR seems to be unable, right now, to let go of the books & even more determined to have absolute control over them. Her vision needs to be the definitive one, she says, because she created the world.
Fine, then get on your workhorse & put out your definitive version of the books & don’t be surprised when all the buzz & discussion about your books dies off.
We’ve discussed this whole issue to death & I’m not going to restart it here, although Mary has an excellent analysis & comparison to Dylan. All I can say is that Jo is rapidly robbing me of the joy of rereading her books.
Or at least discussing them. No wonder avenues of discussion are shutting down, although I hadn’t heard about Mugglecast ceasing. Course, I don’t listen to them anymore. But Snapecast has gone on hiatus too. So, maybe we should just talk about books by authors who are dead.
End of rant. I’m just frustrated with it all.
I see also where the main editor of Spinnerscast is leaving that show soon. Supposedly the show will go on, but I’m skeptical. I always thought Kim, the editor, was the one who gave that show direction & purpose. Perhaps the Golden Era of Harry Potter podcasting is drawing to a close? Sigh.
Perhaps the Golden Era of Harry Potter podcasting is drawing to a close?
Or maybe it’s just making more room for dorky academics like me
Mary, very, very well said. Thanks.
Dylan may say little about his own songs, but seems to me he’s got it right about JKR vs. those who wish her to be silent:
“Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no tellin’ who
That it’s namin’.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin’.”
That wheel, she’s definitely still in spin. And your old road: she’s definitely rapidly aging.
Do I need to add the next line?
Reyhan,
I do not say Jo has to be silent, although I think it best if she was. Or I think it best if she just sat down & wrote her “definitive” version. If she wants total control of her world, fine. Just don’t expect anybody else to be interested in it very much anymore. Let her speak all she wants; I just am losing any desire to critically read her works & try to delve into them for deeper meaning. If the artist tells me exactly what the painting is, why look at the painting? If the songwriter tells me exactly what the song means, why listen to it? If the author tells me exactly how to read her work, then why read it over & over again?
Sorry for the belligerent tone; it’s late & I’m just finishing OOTP which is kind of an emotional roller coaster all by itself without anything else added in.
Travis,
I certainly hope that you & HP Progs do not stop podcasting anytime soon. I always thought you guys were doing the best analysis & commentary on the books & the phenomenon of HP. Well, Pottercast does an excellent job at times, too. But who knows how long they’ll continue? So, keep up the good work & try not to let real life interfere with the important business of putting out pubcasts.
Of course, Dylan was writing about politics, not about a sociological approach to interpreting works of literature…that’s not really one of the tougher Dylan songs to interpret.
But if we’re applying the song, then I might also suggest that, historically speaking, the idea that the author’s “intent” is the authoritative meaning of the book is the “old road” that is “rapidly aging” in this situation.
Let me also clarify that, ideally, I don’t necessarily think Rowling should be not allowed to talk about her books. There are at least three issues here for me: (1) A published work belongs to the readers and the author, not the author alone; which means Rowling’s, “I want the final say because it’s my world” isn’t true once a work of literature is public; (2) I, personally, wish she’d let the published canon speak for itself and leave the rest for the readers; (3) I’d be perfectly fine with Rowling saying whatever she wants if the rest of the world didn’t say, “well, that settles that issue” – meaning, every time Rowling speaks, another area of interpretation is taken away.
It just feels like, at this rate, we’re going to have Rowling publishing a line-by-line exegetical commentary, or a Harry Potter Study Version with interpretive notes by the author side by side with the text.
Well, Travis, the commenters who write passionately about why they prefer that JKR should not interpret her own works appear, to me at any rate, to be defending the established understanding that a work should stand on its own and that the task of interpretation should be left to readers and critics. That is one reason I made the analogy to Dylan’s “old road”.
But more importantly, what JKR is doing is, as far as I know, unprecedented in literature: through the span of seven novels and through the medium of modern communications, she has established an ongoing and almost interactive relationship with her readership. It is this relationship which she refuses to let die, which is putting a spanner in the works of the “old road”: the author toils in solitude and having produced the book, looks upon in silence as readers and critics digest and pronounce.
That is why I quoted the Dylan song: the times are changing. He wrote about politics, but there is no reason – and considerable historical precedent – for me to take it out of that context and apply it to the present: the right to exegesis of the novel.
Sorry for the double post.
After having watched the interview, I think that JKR is insisting not as much as about her right to exegesis, but her right to say what happened next. She explains that she was working so fast that when the books came to an end, she – her imagination – couldn’t stop. She kept imagining what would happen next. And she says:
“I would like my version to be the official version, because it’s my world.”
I interpret that as meaning that she didn’t want others imagining something that just wasn’t “true”.
There is a difference, in my mind, between saying what really happened or what happened next, and interpreting what that means. The information JKR has given us so far – that Dumbledore was gay, who did what and married whom afterwards, and whether King’s Cross was an objective or subjective experience – all fall under saying what happened or what really happened. They are all “factual” (albeit fictional), and not a matter of interpretation. In my admittedly inexpert opinion, interpretation involves looking deeper into the meaning of things. Thus for example, JKR tells us that George married Angelina. She mentions that Angelina used to be Fred’s girl, and wonders about what that means, and whether they could have been happy. That is when she moves into interpretation. And you can tell, by the reflective tone in her voice, that she’s not certain about this, because there are different ways of interpreting why those two characters ended up together.
Uh, I don’t see how the relationship is interactive. At least it was, but now with JKR wanting her pronouncements to be the definitive version, it almost sounds as if she’s dictating how we are to read the novels & interact with the world she created.
And just telling us to ignore her comments & read it with one’s own private interpretation doesn’t solve the problem either. Because if one wants to discuss the books, one will always be hit over the head with JKR’s dictates.
When I watched the video I was preparing myself to be told how to. Instead, I see someone who regrets reaching the end of her stories and has so much more of the “big picture” that she wants to tell. Its always been obvious that the “Harry Potter” novels are only a wee part of the whole of her musings. If I had made this story I’d want to keep sharing it as it strikes a chord with many of the readers as well as being extremely satisfying to the author.
I don’t think that she is trying to interpret her work for us… on the whole. Of course there example of this happening blatantly. What I think she is doing is trying to let us in on more of the grand story – of which her published novels are only a fraction.
I also disagree that it is a question of her interpretation verses the readers. I thinks its a question of her satisfaction with the story revealed thus far. I think she’s a generous author who wants to share her story more completly.
Rowling seems to have reached a point where she has realised that she NEEDS to leave the writing of more Harry stuff alone. I think she realises that this story could become all-consuming of her creative powers.
Am I making sense and/or out on my own on this one?
Matthew
reyhan, I hear what you’re saying. In the grand scheme of things, New Criticism is the new road, though, and the priority of authorial intent in the old road…but you do have a very good point. What Rowling is doing with the constant interaction with her fans over the past 10 years is a very new thing, primarily because the internet has allowed for an international conversation about the books.
I interpret that as meaning that she didn’t want others imagining something that just wasn’t “true”.
Yes, I agree…she’s saying she wants her version of what happens in the future to be official. She’s got every right to that, of course, but I’m just not sure it’s official (or “true”) unless she decides to publish more novels about her Wizarding World. I’ve never been a fan of fan fiction…but I see the value in it. And the more she talks, the more she takes that away; and the kicker about that is the fact that she’s made statements saying that what she did with the novels left plenty of room for fan fiction. She seems to keep taking that room away.
There are definitely a few different types of pronouncements that Rowling is making. There are those about a character’s background that find no direct link to her published canon (“Dumbledore is gay”); there are interpretive statements (“Dumbledore is Machiavellian,” “Snape is not a hero,” “Snape is a hero,” “Snape is not really a hero”); and there are the statements about what happens in the “future” (a future for which there is no canon, currently).
So parsing out the difference between these types of statements probably makes a difference in this overall conversation.
Matthew and Travis, I agree with what you’re saying.
Matthew, I strongly got the same feeling from the interview that you did: the regret at the ending of the story, the generosity at wanting to share more of the story, and – most interestingly – her realization that she needs to let this go before it becomes all consuming. The look on her face, and her hesitation, before she answers the question about writing more Potter, was incredibly expressive of her ambivalence on this issue. I hope, for her sake as an author of future books, that she finds the resolution to let go of Potter.
Travis, completely agree that there are different types of pronouncements, and that it does make a difference for this debate (should she / shouldn’t she?) which ones we’re talking about. I for one am totally ok with background and future information, although I take the former a tad more seriously than the latter, because it has (through the author’s imagination) already informed the canon, whereas I view what happens in the future as conjectural, unless and until she writes it down. We don’t know how committed JKR is to her conjectures, and it could easily change in the writing, I think.
The interpretation of the “facts” is the one area where I can see more eye-to-eye with the school of thought which says that the author’s interpretation is important, but not the end-all and be-all. At least, for the examples that you have cited.
reyhan wrote:
“The interpretation of the “facts” is the one area where I can see more eye-to-eye with the school of thought which says that the author’s interpretation is important, but not the end-all and be-all. At least, for the examples that you have cited.”
Which is the point of view I’ve been coming from. I don’t care about the future information either. In fact, I quite like it, except for the people who instantly declaim it as canon. As for the background information, that’s good & helpful, too.
But as Jo’s interview on Pottercast shows, the author may not even have her own background information right. She always thought Hannah Abbott was pureblood even though her school notebook from years ago shows her as muggleborn? So, she’ll settle for calling her halfblood. And the fact that she herself doesn’t even know how to interpret the missing 24 hours.
Which is why in doing critical analysis more credence has to be given to what is actually written for public consumption & is considered to be the “received” text, I guess, than the author’s statements. But not that the author’s statements are unimportant; just not necessarily definitive.
So, I don’t think we’re all that far apart in our view of this. I think we’ve just been focusing on different angles of it.