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	<title>Comments on: No God in Deathly Hallows?</title>
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	<description>Harry Potter News and Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Westel</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/no-god-in-deathly-hallows-501/comment-page-1/#comment-213199</link>
		<dc:creator>Westel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/09/06/no-god-in-deathly-hallows/#comment-213199</guid>
		<description>Tolkien tells us that Gollum succumbed to the Ring according to the predisposition of his character.  I was drawn to the occult as a child and teenager through Halloween, ghost stories, and horror films - but the cause was not directly due to these avenues: the fascination was already there.  Now I know better to stay away from those things that, even in my adult Christian life, still draw me.  The HP books *may* be an avenue for some, but the *cause*?  That&#039;s where the fine edge is, I think.

Oh, and as an aside, I looked up Ariana.  It&#039;s a variant of the Greek &quot;Ariadne&quot;, which means:  &quot;most holy&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tolkien tells us that Gollum succumbed to the Ring according to the predisposition of his character.  I was drawn to the occult as a child and teenager through Halloween, ghost stories, and horror films &#8211; but the cause was not directly due to these avenues: the fascination was already there.  Now I know better to stay away from those things that, even in my adult Christian life, still draw me.  The HP books *may* be an avenue for some, but the *cause*?  That&#8217;s where the fine edge is, I think.</p>
<p>Oh, and as an aside, I looked up Ariana.  It&#8217;s a variant of the Greek &#8220;Ariadne&#8221;, which means:  &#8220;most holy&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Black Angus</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/no-god-in-deathly-hallows-501/comment-page-1/#comment-212748</link>
		<dc:creator>Black Angus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/09/06/no-god-in-deathly-hallows/#comment-212748</guid>
		<description>Trish, it is sad that something as light-weight as Bewitched leads to Satanism.  But the Lord of the Rings led to prog rock. Narnia led to Happy Meal tie-ins.  Anything good can be peverted.  

I&#039;m yet to hear of any verifiable evidence that proves Potter promotes paganism.
But as many have already noted about these critics, why let the facts get in the way of your argument?  
Ethical Harry-haters should not take any royalties from their books because they are indirectly profiting off a work that is damning children to hell (ironic emoticon).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trish, it is sad that something as light-weight as Bewitched leads to Satanism.  But the Lord of the Rings led to prog rock. Narnia led to Happy Meal tie-ins.  Anything good can be peverted.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m yet to hear of any verifiable evidence that proves Potter promotes paganism.<br />
But as many have already noted about these critics, why let the facts get in the way of your argument?<br />
Ethical Harry-haters should not take any royalties from their books because they are indirectly profiting off a work that is damning children to hell (ironic emoticon).</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/no-god-in-deathly-hallows-501/comment-page-1/#comment-208141</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 04:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/09/06/no-god-in-deathly-hallows/#comment-208141</guid>
		<description>Trish, you are correct. And I understand that different things affect people differently. That is why I would never try to force people to read HP, in the same way that O&#039;Brien and others are trying to force them NOT to. I only argue that they should not say it is only, and completely evil. My wife started reading the books originally because she worked in the church&#039;s children&#039;s dept. and had lots of parents asking about the controversy. After reading them, she ultimately told a lot of people to read the books themselves and decide whether they wanted their kids to read them. My sister let her kids decide on their own. Her oldest read the first two and stopped because he didn&#039;t like how the books affected him. Smart kid. 
On the video games? Name one game, that kids will actually play, that exercises their mind like a book does. There are certainly games out there, but I would argue that kids mostly think they&#039;re boring. The cool games are Halo, racing games, sports games. I&#039;m not saying those are bad. I myself am a big fan of Warcraft. But they don&#039;t exercise your brain like a good book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trish, you are correct. And I understand that different things affect people differently. That is why I would never try to force people to read HP, in the same way that O&#8217;Brien and others are trying to force them NOT to. I only argue that they should not say it is only, and completely evil. My wife started reading the books originally because she worked in the church&#8217;s children&#8217;s dept. and had lots of parents asking about the controversy. After reading them, she ultimately told a lot of people to read the books themselves and decide whether they wanted their kids to read them. My sister let her kids decide on their own. Her oldest read the first two and stopped because he didn&#8217;t like how the books affected him. Smart kid.<br />
On the video games? Name one game, that kids will actually play, that exercises their mind like a book does. There are certainly games out there, but I would argue that kids mostly think they&#8217;re boring. The cool games are Halo, racing games, sports games. I&#8217;m not saying those are bad. I myself am a big fan of Warcraft. But they don&#8217;t exercise your brain like a good book.</p>
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		<title>By: Trish</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/no-god-in-deathly-hallows-501/comment-page-1/#comment-207772</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 22:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/09/06/no-god-in-deathly-hallows/#comment-207772</guid>
		<description>revgeorge--I agree.

Scott--I don&#039;t agree, not completely.  It is possible for some seemingly innocuous things to be stumbling blocks for some people.  I am thinking in particular of a young Satanist who was interviewed for our local newspaper.  He proudly declared that he became interested in Satanism because of the television sitcom &quot;Bewitched&quot;.  I offer that for what it&#039;s worth; you can believe it or not as you choose.  But understand that there are some things that will affect others adversely that do not have any effect on you, and vice versa.  It&#039;s a matter for individual parents to decide.

I also don&#039;t agree that reading any book is better than playing any video game.  Many video games exercise the imagination far more than some books do.  Again, it&#039;s an individual matter.

Everybody--clearly, it&#039;s silly to condemn a book one hasn&#039;t read.  But aren&#039;t we all, including O&#039;Brien and Grossman, really beating a dead horse here?  If they can&#039;t admit they&#039;ve been wrong, they can&#039;t.  I&#039;m getting tired of the whole foolish argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>revgeorge&#8211;I agree.</p>
<p>Scott&#8211;I don&#8217;t agree, not completely.  It is possible for some seemingly innocuous things to be stumbling blocks for some people.  I am thinking in particular of a young Satanist who was interviewed for our local newspaper.  He proudly declared that he became interested in Satanism because of the television sitcom &#8220;Bewitched&#8221;.  I offer that for what it&#8217;s worth; you can believe it or not as you choose.  But understand that there are some things that will affect others adversely that do not have any effect on you, and vice versa.  It&#8217;s a matter for individual parents to decide.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t agree that reading any book is better than playing any video game.  Many video games exercise the imagination far more than some books do.  Again, it&#8217;s an individual matter.</p>
<p>Everybody&#8211;clearly, it&#8217;s silly to condemn a book one hasn&#8217;t read.  But aren&#8217;t we all, including O&#8217;Brien and Grossman, really beating a dead horse here?  If they can&#8217;t admit they&#8217;ve been wrong, they can&#8217;t.  I&#8217;m getting tired of the whole foolish argument.</p>
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		<title>By: revgeorge</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/no-god-in-deathly-hallows-501/comment-page-1/#comment-207716</link>
		<dc:creator>revgeorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 21:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/09/06/no-god-in-deathly-hallows/#comment-207716</guid>
		<description>Great article, Johnny!  

It seems as if some of these critics read Rowling like the higher critics read the Bible.  Oh, it can&#039;t mean what it says here. They must&#039;ve meant something else or they&#039;re leaving something out.  Or more crassly, like any Biblical miracles, miracles don&#039;t happen so these Biblical ones are just made up.  

But the highest duty of a critic is to actually deal with the text itself &amp; not their preconceptions of it.  And it goes without saying, although I&#039;ll say it, to help understand the context &amp; intent of the text, the best person to ask is the author!

So, the critics of Harry Potter seem to be going off the edge either way, whether reading it with their anti-God preconceptions or their Potter just promotes witchcraft preconceptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, Johnny!  </p>
<p>It seems as if some of these critics read Rowling like the higher critics read the Bible.  Oh, it can&#8217;t mean what it says here. They must&#8217;ve meant something else or they&#8217;re leaving something out.  Or more crassly, like any Biblical miracles, miracles don&#8217;t happen so these Biblical ones are just made up.  </p>
<p>But the highest duty of a critic is to actually deal with the text itself &amp; not their preconceptions of it.  And it goes without saying, although I&#8217;ll say it, to help understand the context &amp; intent of the text, the best person to ask is the author!</p>
<p>So, the critics of Harry Potter seem to be going off the edge either way, whether reading it with their anti-God preconceptions or their Potter just promotes witchcraft preconceptions.</p>
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		<title>By: korg20000bc</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/no-god-in-deathly-hallows-501/comment-page-1/#comment-207704</link>
		<dc:creator>korg20000bc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 21:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/09/06/no-god-in-deathly-hallows/#comment-207704</guid>
		<description>I feel that commentators like O&#039;Brien and Grossman have come out publically only because of the success of the stories.  Anything less popular, in that genre, is beneath their consideration.  It seems to be &quot;Our way or not at all.&quot;

Scott, I agree completely.  It appears that &quot;serious&quot; readers don&#039;t read fantasy or science fiction.  They&#039;re missing out on a lot.

I was just watching a talk by a Christian preacher called &quot;Aliens, UFO&#039;s and the Bible&quot;.  His conclusions were pretty good but how he got there was not.  &quot;Evolution AND Science Fiction&quot; are the tools that the enemy is using to increase the unbelief in the world.

Matthew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel that commentators like O&#8217;Brien and Grossman have come out publically only because of the success of the stories.  Anything less popular, in that genre, is beneath their consideration.  It seems to be &#8220;Our way or not at all.&#8221;</p>
<p>Scott, I agree completely.  It appears that &#8220;serious&#8221; readers don&#8217;t read fantasy or science fiction.  They&#8217;re missing out on a lot.</p>
<p>I was just watching a talk by a Christian preacher called &#8220;Aliens, UFO&#8217;s and the Bible&#8221;.  His conclusions were pretty good but how he got there was not.  &#8220;Evolution AND Science Fiction&#8221; are the tools that the enemy is using to increase the unbelief in the world.</p>
<p>Matthew</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/no-god-in-deathly-hallows-501/comment-page-1/#comment-207543</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/09/06/no-god-in-deathly-hallows/#comment-207543</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s my question. So, what if there WASN&#039;T any God in the HP books? What if O&#039;Brien and Grossman were correct? It is still a great story. It is still a ripping good yarn. Why can&#039;t they accept it as just a good story even if they refuse to see the Christian themes? I have yet to see any great harm come from people reading these books. There are no news articles about some kid in a small town that actually learned magic and killed his family or anything like that. Nothing. 
I have said elsewhere that I don&#039;t necessarily think JKR is the best writer, although she has gotten better. She IS a fabulous story teller. But if the quality of writing in HP is less than the biggies like Tolkien and Lewis, it is still miles ahead of what kids get when they sit in front of the TV all day, or play their XBox for hours. It still makes their imagination work. And I don&#039;t think most people would argue that&#039;s a bad thing. Maybe O&#039;Brien and Grossman would because you need a closed mind to buy their line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s my question. So, what if there WASN&#8217;T any God in the HP books? What if O&#8217;Brien and Grossman were correct? It is still a great story. It is still a ripping good yarn. Why can&#8217;t they accept it as just a good story even if they refuse to see the Christian themes? I have yet to see any great harm come from people reading these books. There are no news articles about some kid in a small town that actually learned magic and killed his family or anything like that. Nothing.<br />
I have said elsewhere that I don&#8217;t necessarily think JKR is the best writer, although she has gotten better. She IS a fabulous story teller. But if the quality of writing in HP is less than the biggies like Tolkien and Lewis, it is still miles ahead of what kids get when they sit in front of the TV all day, or play their XBox for hours. It still makes their imagination work. And I don&#8217;t think most people would argue that&#8217;s a bad thing. Maybe O&#8217;Brien and Grossman would because you need a closed mind to buy their line.</p>
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		<title>By: Eeyore</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/no-god-in-deathly-hallows-501/comment-page-1/#comment-207500</link>
		<dc:creator>Eeyore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/09/06/no-god-in-deathly-hallows/#comment-207500</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with you both. One of the things I&#039;ve found interesting, yet disturbing, is that people I know who are not Christian (or of any religion) are having the hardest time with Deathly Hallows. They didn&#039;t like it; they think the story line was a cop out; they think that Rowling was tired of the story and could have done better by all the characters.

I can&#039;t even talk to them about it, because I know it will end in a huge fight. They didn&#039;t like DH because it didn&#039;t fit with their idea of where the story should go and they don&#039;t like the Christian aspects that they see--it challenges their beliefs (or lack of them), and after reading the series and talking for the last 5 or 6 years, they are finding themselves in a very uncomfortable position of having to admit that the stories do have a decidedly Christian theme. (Which is what I told them after Order of the Phoenix when they were annoyed that the answer to defeating Voldemort would be &quot;love conquers all&quot;.) I&#039;ve actually had to quit talking to them altogether, as I find I really want to say &quot;I told you so&quot;, but that&#039;s not very kind. The other problem they are having is that they are very tied to some fan fiction that one of them wrote--the first one and parts of the second were quite good, for fan fic. (I&#039;m not trying to offend people who like fanfic, but most of it strays so far from canon that I just can&#039;t read it.)

I think with people like O&#039;Brien and Grossman they fall into the same trap--they are so tied to their own theories about what Rowling is writing that they have forgotten to read the stories with  an open mind to see what is really there. It&#039;s just not that hard to see unless the reader is determined to see something else.

Pat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with you both. One of the things I&#8217;ve found interesting, yet disturbing, is that people I know who are not Christian (or of any religion) are having the hardest time with Deathly Hallows. They didn&#8217;t like it; they think the story line was a cop out; they think that Rowling was tired of the story and could have done better by all the characters.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t even talk to them about it, because I know it will end in a huge fight. They didn&#8217;t like DH because it didn&#8217;t fit with their idea of where the story should go and they don&#8217;t like the Christian aspects that they see&#8211;it challenges their beliefs (or lack of them), and after reading the series and talking for the last 5 or 6 years, they are finding themselves in a very uncomfortable position of having to admit that the stories do have a decidedly Christian theme. (Which is what I told them after Order of the Phoenix when they were annoyed that the answer to defeating Voldemort would be &#8220;love conquers all&#8221;.) I&#8217;ve actually had to quit talking to them altogether, as I find I really want to say &#8220;I told you so&#8221;, but that&#8217;s not very kind. The other problem they are having is that they are very tied to some fan fiction that one of them wrote&#8211;the first one and parts of the second were quite good, for fan fic. (I&#8217;m not trying to offend people who like fanfic, but most of it strays so far from canon that I just can&#8217;t read it.)</p>
<p>I think with people like O&#8217;Brien and Grossman they fall into the same trap&#8211;they are so tied to their own theories about what Rowling is writing that they have forgotten to read the stories with  an open mind to see what is really there. It&#8217;s just not that hard to see unless the reader is determined to see something else.</p>
<p>Pat</p>
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		<title>By: Dave the Longwinded</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/no-god-in-deathly-hallows-501/comment-page-1/#comment-207444</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave the Longwinded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/09/06/no-god-in-deathly-hallows/#comment-207444</guid>
		<description>But you&#039;re a charitable thinker willing to consider Rowling&#039;s Christianity.  For fundamentalists, it&#039;s not about &quot;her Christian faith&quot;; it&#039;s about their Christian faith.  In Grossman&#039;s case, it&#039;s about a pure misunderstanding of faith in general, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But you&#8217;re a charitable thinker willing to consider Rowling&#8217;s Christianity.  For fundamentalists, it&#8217;s not about &#8220;her Christian faith&#8221;; it&#8217;s about their Christian faith.  In Grossman&#8217;s case, it&#8217;s about a pure misunderstanding of faith in general, I think.</p>
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