There’s a flurry of discussion about whether or not Harry will die in the last book, as well as the related issue of whether or not Harry is a horcrux. Next week, I’ll do some summary and speculation on the horcrux issue, but for now, the Poll Troll has a question:
What do you think will happen to Harry in book seven?
a) Harry is a horcrux, and he will have to die in order to defeat Voldemort.
b) Harry is a horcrux, but he will find away to destroy the horcrux within him and live, while defeating Voldemort.
c) Harry is not a horcrux, but he will die.
d) Harry is not a horcrux, and he will not die.
e) I have absolutely no clue.
Joivre on 
Arabella Figg on 
Red Rocker on 
Tom on 
Loading ...
{ 125 comments… read them below or add one }
d) Harry is not a horcrux, and he will not die.
e) Harry will die simultaneously with Vold, but will resurrect.
This is strange, but check it out: while I don’t think Harry is a horcrux, my prophecy theory rests on the fact that he could be. My answer is a). Harry is a horcrux and will realize he must allow Voldemort to destroy him in order to destroy Voldemort. Check out the theory:
http://www.lashawnbarber.com/ffc/2005/12/07/prophecy-theory/
I would pretty much say (D) – but I do speculate that the scar might be an accidental horcrux. Also see Merlin’s latest post for his “sectum sempra” prediction, a bit speculative, yet interesting.
I have posted on Muggle Matters (http://www.mugglematters.com/2005/12/sectum-sempra.html) my theory about Snapes involvement in the end.
Here I’ll say that I do not believe Harry will die. I could be wrong, but I do not think it characteristic of the type of work she is doing (for one I suspect she feels it would make it too much of an “allegory” of the Bible, meaning allegory in the negative sense in which Tolkien criticized it) … and, in Shakespearian/drama terms, I think the series is meant to be more of a comedy than tragedy.
As far as Harry as a Horcrux, I do not think that he himself is one, as in his whole person, but I believe that Pauli (my mugglematters partner in crime) is right in following John Granger that the scar is some sort of Horcrux. I don’t see how it cannot be since it burns when Voldy is near and even from afar when Voldy is angry etc, ie when his psyche/soul is especially active in an excited or agitated state … and I don’t see how this can be due to anything other than the scar containing an actual piece of Voldy’s soul that gets agitated when the rest of his soul/psyche gets agitated (anger/excitement/etc being psychological phenomena)
But I personally do not believe that Harry will have to die in order for that part of Voldy’s soul to die, at least in so far as it must die to make Voldy mortal again. I think, however that the scar will remain in some form for two reasons: 1. as a marker of the suffering alchemical purging rought in the process of his transformation into the golden soul (cf my post on the tidbit from Rowling that the last word will be “scar” – http://www.mugglematters.com/2005/11/last-word.html) and 2. It seems that the point of Christian Alchemy is a rebuttal to Gnosticism in that matter is not intrinsically evil and after the purification matter is meant o be rejoined to spirit in a pure union of the golden soul. Granger notes Voldy as the black element of pure base material and so, since matter is to remain but transformed and hierarchically set right, I think some trace of Voldy will remain, ie the scar, and it will remain on a living (ie still operative on our plain, specifically still as one of us) golden soul, Harry. This is my strongest defense for my theory that Harry will not die.
I could not help myself. I have gone through a lot of sites talking about speculation that Harry is a horcrux and so on and so forth and also that Harry would die.
I just wanted to bring out some facts which speculators tend to forget…
1. You make a horcrux…if voldemort knew that somehow Harry is the prophecised end why would he put a part of his soul..which out to make him immortal in someone which he wants to kill??????I mean really..he is the most clever wizard..not a fool.
2. For the love of God…IT’S A CHILDREN BOOK!!!
with kids crazy about Harry Potter and the fact that Harry is the “Good” in this fight of Good vs. Evil….why would JKR kill harry????It is insane.
No matter what happens…Good triumphs over evil. It is certain Harry will overcome Voldemort…with love and something. It is not the question as to what will happen…what the question, my friend is…how!
Think about it.
Kanika, I appreciate your thoughts. Please understand that I am still very skeptical about the idea that Harry is a horcrux. However, your arguments (in my humble opinion) are not enough to defeat the position.
1. We don’t know HOW you make a horcrux, so we don’t know if it could happen accidentally or not. Furthermore, we have a lot of evidence that there is some “part” of Voldemort in Harry, including a pretty blatant statement in CoS that Voldemort put part of himself in Harry.
2. JKR is not writing children’s books. She’s said that herself. She has not shrunk back at all from writing stuff that might be quite scary for kids. Furthermore, one of the key themes for the books has been “Death and Bereavement” (see John Granger for more). We also have a statement from JKR herself that we’ll have to wait and see whether or not Harry makes it to adulthood.
I guess that Harry is Voldemort’s incidental, involuntary horcrux. Harry would destroy all the horcruxes he knew of (except himself, which he does not know about) and then confront Lord Voldemort himself. Voldemort would somehow know that he has one horcrux left (he must have got a feeling that the number seven has been achieved) and mock Harry, as he believes that he is immortal.
Harry & big V duel. of course, Voldemort is faster and throws the killing curse. Harry also somehow manages to utter Avada Kedavrs just when the curse is about to hit him.
The curse kills Harry and destroys the Horcrux within him. after a few micromoments, Harry’s curse hits Voldemort, who is now mortal as his horcruxes are over. He gets killed by Harry’s curse.
Voldemort destroys his own Horcrux, and teh horcrux destroys him.
I guess that’s too much Fanfiction for you people to digest
PS Thanks, Travis for giving my site name in your article and giving it a such a good review. Next time you visit The Abtsract Pensieve, please leave comments to let me know how my conspirational, sorry, inpirational theories fare.
Okay..i don’t remember reading anywhere that Voldemort put a part of himself in harry…it was that he accidentally transferred some of his powers.
Ok…so it is not a child’s book. Please….do you really believe that! I am not in any way ridiculing it. I love Harry Potter and am an ardent admirer of JKR. I think she is simply brilliant but she has so simply said…love never dies. It stays on…forever.
And i simply believe that in all mythologies…GOOD triumphs over evil. Maybe i am scared that she would kill Harry and i don’t want that. But what i know is that when my five year old nephew went to see the GOF recently, he was very disturbed. He askedme why did Harry run? He has watched the movie thrice and there is not a single movie he does not know by heart. I am ready to bet that the feelings are shared…the audience is mostly children…adults trying to forget the real world and be a kid. We all are wishing to transport ourselve back. It is a classic Good vs. evil and for me a simple old bollywood classic retold in a very fascinating manner. All i know is…i am a writer and there always comes a time when you have to write something that would please your reader. She can not possibly do the blunder of destroying the small candle in kids hearts…imagine the heartbreak of a kid who idolizes Harry…wants him to win always…how would the children around the world feel when their favourite wizard…dies. What kind of a message???
No matter how you people speculate…i know one thing. It is a children’s book. No matter what people say…read them…even if they have scary corners…the books are never dark. Even Ramayan had scary parts….never meant Ram would die. Same goes for HP. Also the writing style is…well…JKR is brilliant but she ain’t no Paulho Coehlo…or Eric Segal or Jeffrey Archer and so on.
People say what they want to…i would eat my shoe if Harry dies…and i mean it.
Also…Voldemort could possess any body but could not do so with Harry..because of the immense love….with so much of love in Harry’s body….does Voldy’s soul ( a part of it) stand a chance to survive??? What say?
Kanika, if I get a chance and can find it, I’ll reference an interview where JKR says that she is not writing literature particularly for children, even if lots of children like the books.
I’m not certain Harry will die…in fact, I tend to shy away from that position. But good can triumph over evil, even if Harry dies. JKR has hinted at the possibility of a Harry death (which could just be her way of throwing her readers off the real plot, of course). And the idea that love never dies does not mean Harry never dies, especially since the whole story began with the loving death of his mother.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts!
All others: Thanks for your contributions to the discussion so far. I’m going to take another week or so perhaps on horcrux speculation, and then do a couple of posts on it. I’d like to interact more with your thoughts, as well as with the scar-as-horcrux idea (not sure I buy that, but it’s interesting), but I need more time (which I do not presently have).
Woah, you people need to chill. I think that Harry is a horcrux and Voldemort does not know. But with my luck I am probably wrong. ha. But out of those letter thingies, i would have to choose….woah, after reading them again, i think they r all REALLY possible but i dont think Jk Rowling would kill off Harry. It would be too gay.so… probably… B. because that would be the coolest way. plus i think whoever said Voldemort accidentally made Harry a horcrux is right. Thanks for listening pals (or reading actually)
Cass**
PS.. No offense or anything( this is the first time ive ever posted anything on a fan site) but u guys are a little obsessed.. it isnt worth fighting over.
Sorry for saying all u peeple need to chill. Whoever you people are, need to join a debate team. I mean liike, u would kick peoples asses out there.
Cassie*
P.S.- Whoever thinks Ron and Hermione need to go out, comment. Cuz they do. Thanks pals.
Cassie, welcome to the discussion and thanks for your comments. I think I’m closest to option B as well, though I have to admit I don’t want Harry to die, so that might be heavily influencing my opinion.
As much as I’ve avoided a “shipping” (who should go out with whom) debate, if it turns out to be popular, I’ll have the Poll Troll ask a question about it.
Hey this is Lauren and Andie!!! Cass’s best friends ( seriously were at her house right now)
Wow. You guys are like really into this crappus…. But uh…. we guess thats cool!
(hey this is andie for 1 sec) hey i really want Ron & Hermione to hook up!!! YEA!!!! i feel if they have a child together it would be the greatest series EVER!!!! no wait—TWINS!!! no—TRIPLETS!!!!!!!! ok well, i dont exactly know WHAT THE HELL A HORCRUX IS… so Travis… you wanna help me out??? thanx!! (WiNk WiNk*) yeah so i dont think any one of those thingys are going to happen but if travis will ask the nice troll person i want to put this one up… f. Ron and Hermione will have triplets and Harry will fall down the large stone stairs in the hall of Hogwarts and acquire brain damage, with which Mrs. Weasly wil decide to pull the magic plug. okey dokey now… ill talk to you all later!!! ly *andie
(this is lauren 4 a second) okay u guys r a little obsessive about the whole harry potter thing! i agree with andie-it would be a great ending if hermonie and ron hooked up in the summer and she gives birth during the school year!! it would be like smart girl does stupid sex act!! but i think if harry falls down the stairs, harry would die instantly! and even if he did survive, ron and hermonie would decide they didnt need harry becuz they already would have 1 child 2 be responsible 4! they would go 1,2,3 and pull the plug!
*LAUREN*
sorry pals case closed!
*PS*
we thought of some names 4 ron and hermonies possible child(ren)
if its a boy…harry, duran daran, voldemort, hedwig jr, severus, slughorn, vanit, greggorious, mmemmehemenshmiemer, or possibly flagh… it would be very patriotic
if its a girl… harriet?, polot inspector, moxy crime fighter, ranusu, lafonda, carmenita, sweater suit, or possibly alfonsolineous!
kay well ill have my dad talk 2 jkr about this because he knows her (he’s in the publishing business) [dont be jealous witches/wizards]
*andie
xoLAUREN
I might want to point out, of course, that it’s a little ironic to say we’re “obsessed” with Harry Potter as you continue on and on about Ron and Hermione getting together and having triplets. One might actually think that you’re more obsessed than people discussing things relevant to the storyline…
In any case, it would be best for you to just read Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, of course, where horcruxes are explained. If you haven’t read the books it’ll be hard to navigate around the discussion at this site.
Some of the arguments I’ve seen above (NOT including the teenage angst over ships)are pretty adamant about what JKR ‘can’ and ‘cannot’ write. After reading essays at this site and also quite a bit of Merlin’s ponderings, I think the field remains wide open as to what will or will not happen to Harry in Book 7. I am curious as to why Kanika things heroes must remain strong and victorious and defeat death? The Pevensie children died in a train wreck – and The Chronicles are definitely children’s books!
Morganna, I agree with you. I think I wrote in an earlier post that attempting to predict/say what JKR will or will not do is really an exercise in futility.
Some folks love the speculation, and I do some here. John Granger is constructing a nice little theory about how Harry became a horcrux and what happened at Godric’s Hollow that night (perhaps he’ll post it at Hogwarts Professor when he’s got it all polished up).
But as for me, I’m bound to be wrong a lot, as I think JKR is really good at surprising us.
Good point about the Pevensies, by the way.
Don’t misunderstand me – I *love* the speculation! Right after I finished Book 5 I was convinced that Harry would have to die, but after hearing what Dumbledore said about the prophecy (several times), it looks like Harry still has choices. I’ll be watching for John’s essay – I must say I’ve really enjoyed SoG and MM immensely!
Morganna, I’m not certain that John plans a public post about it (I haven’t asked him), but I do hope he does.
Thanks for the complements here and on other posts. I appreciate the feedback! It looks like the guys over at MM are doing a great job. Unfortunately, I can barely find time to keep up here, so I haven’t had the chance to join discussion over there just yet.
hey travis!! i havent commented 4 a while as i have have been quite busy! i just wanted 2 let u no that i have read the half blood prince..and i probably finished b4 u even started as i received an autographed advanced copy ..from JKR herself!!! and i actually believe that ron and hermonie hooking up is relevant to the story line!! if u paid attention while reading the books/watching the movies u would notice the chemistry between ron and hermonie!! ok so maybe thinking up thoses names was a little extravagant… but i was bored and yeah!! so about the horcrux thing–i think harry was meant 2 b a horcrux but it totally backfired! i could be totally wrong …so pleaz dont yell at me!!! thanx!!
**LOVE ALWAYZ
xoLAUREN
Nice lauren, nice.
I think u might be right too!
but ummm, i think ron and hermione hooking up could be extremely relevant for some crazy twisted up way, and there might be some new gay prophecy or something…. there are like a crapload of possibilities.
Cassie**
ps.. lauren, i wrote a poem for graduation! im gonna send it to u!
Hey guys,
Actually Ron and Hermione’s relationship is significant as they represent quicksilver and sulfur for the alchemical process. See this article by John Granger.
hey guys! thanx travis, for agreeing with me about the relevance of ron and hermonie together! sorry about the name thing..that waas a little obsessive! anyways..i cant wait til the new book comes out…would you ahppen to no the exact date? my dad knows it but i dont see him that often because my rents are divorced! so that would be great if you could get back to me about that!!
i have a question for you travis–how old are you? i no its a weird question…but i want to make sure youre not some creepy guy..whos trying to “lure” me. kk thanx!!
ok–one more thing! do you think i could possibly be right about the whole thing about harry potter being a horcrux that backfired? dont yell if im wrong!! i cant stand virtual yelling!!
*LAUREN
Lauren, just for the record, I am a happily married 27 year old with a wonderful wife and a baby due in July. I have no intention of “luring” anybody. In fact, I make it a policy not to initiate private conversation (you’ll notice my email address is nowhere present), and I do not make plans to meet with people.
Sure, the backfired horcrux theory is possible, though I’m of the belief that LV would not have intentionally attempted to make Harry a horcrux (though Mara’s points about this have been significant, I think).
STOP DELETING MY POSTINGS!!!!! IZ BEEZ GETTINGZ ANGRYZ!!!!
much love
GOSSIP GIRL
Gossip Girl,
You appear to have been playing “Thief- Deadly Shadows”
Don’t get angry. Just write your ideas down without yelling and we can have a good discussion.
Matt
I’ll be writing a clarification about comments soon. The short version is that I’m trying to not have to moderate comments, but there is a specific purpose for the comments section that should be followed, i.e., discussion of the post in question and related issues.
My truthful answer to your poll would have to be “E” because I really have no idea what JKR IS going to write.
Having said that if anyone REALLY values my personal oppinion, and won’t hold it against me, I would have to admit to my underlining hope of “B”, so all ends on a happy note.
I must add though, that if JKR chooses to end the series in Harry’s death and make a personal statement of sorts, she shouldn’t change her mind because of a bunch of upset fans. Writing should fulfil at least one other purpose other than entertaining if the writer is truely creative, inspirational, and wise, which I believe JKR to be. That’s my personal philosophy for my own writings anyhow, but then again, maybe that’s why I haven’t actually finished any of my writings yet.
Ahhh, someday!
….and that includes children’s literature too, as I personally don’t want a bunch of “gits” growing up in my home.
Greetings all ! I am new to this site and have been enjoyed getting my mind changed about book 7. Thanks for showing me other very tangible possibilities ! augh !
Here is my 2 cents though & the reasoning behind them.
1. Harry is possibly an accidental horcrux…but he will not die. My reasoning: He survived because his mother died to save him, thus possibly fulfilling one of the necessary elements needed for a horcrux. Her life & loved exchanged to save him.
2. I believe someone else will die, but it will probably be Ron Weasley.
Reasons:
a)Ron was considered the most important thing to Harry in GOF…and taken down for a visit with the merpeople.
b) It has come out time and again that Ron feels unnoticed and wants to be noticed for being himself. Handed down clothing, one of the younger children in a large family of noted and semi-important Weasleys.
c) After the revalation that Harry did not enter himself into the Triward Tourney, Ron’s devotion increased to Harry, I read it that way.
d) The Weasleys are considered Blood Traitors…would be an excellant smack or perceived punishment by Voldemort & his group to kill one of them and being best friend to Harry…that is just icing to boot.
e) Ron would be willing to protect Harry, as their friendship has shown & grown, and it would not surprise me if he stepped in front of a jinx or curse meant for Harry…thus doing something heroic (though not doing it for that purpose) & giving him notarity in the end.
f)Ron’s parents would be devastated & Ginny would be instantly voted most likely to kill anyone that hurt her big brother…not to mention the other Weasley children becoming bent on revenge to avenge their brother’s death, making a formible and focused team.
g) It would be fitting to have ‘poor Ron’ killed off, in the way the stories have been going, because he is never the hero and bad & crappy things happen to him. Like a typical Murphy, despite his good heart and disposition.
That’s all that I get down on epaper for now. My kids are on springbreak and the one keeps bugging me as he is already bored !! AUGH !
Lori Callaway
i relly agree w/ lori about the ron thing! that is so totally gonna happen its not even funny. I was talking to liz though and we couldnt figure out why her posts keep getting deleted. If anyone has any information on it, please post back about it! thanks,
Beth
I second that motion on Ron. Good points Lori!
As to the problems with the posts, I’ve never had a problem having any of mine posted immidiately. Maybe your friend has a messed up system that doesn’t complete the process all the way. There is also the probability that she is posting them inappropriatelly (i.e. not filling in all required information at the Leave a Comment spot or including forbidden words etc..) Good luck.
Deborah
On deleted comments:
I have really appreciated the on-task dialogue, responding to the posts and carrying the conversation further. I’m trying very hard to keep the comments unmoderated (i.e., you don’t have to wait for approval for them to be posted), so I’m taking a sort of middle ground that goes something like this:
If the comment is relevant to the post, helpful to the conversation, asks questions that have something to do with Harry Potter, or basically anything that furthers the dialogue, I have no problem with them.
At the same time, this is a comments section, not a chat or forum. Comments like “OMG R0n and H3rmi0n3 sh0uld t0tally g3t it 0n and have childr3n that w0uld r0XX0rs LOLOLOL!!!!11!!” …well, to put it plainly, they will not have a place on this blog.
Keep the dialogue appropriate, respectful, and on the topic of the books/novels, and everything will go great! Thanks, folks. I really have appreciated everyone’s excellent contributions to the conversation.
a) Harry is a Horcrux and dies to defeat The Dark Lord.
Its the symbolism of the noble hero sacrificing himself to defeat the evil villain, thereby saving the people.
ummm….. i know this isnt relevant or whatever, but i would like to say that i dont know anyone named beth. at all. unless beth is liz ( elizabeth+ liz or beth ( or ellie or whatever the crap u want to call it) so….. i might be getting stalked by this “beth” person. and umm, so this dosnt get deleted, i think ron will try and save harry, but i dont think he will die (even though now that i said it he prolly will)because…simply… everyone likes ron. he is the “comic relief” if u will. thanks pals.
a) Harry is a horcrux, and he will have to die in order to defeat Voldemort.
I’ve had my suspicions ever since I’ve read HBP.
c) Harry is not a horcrux, but he will die.
I think Harry is not a horcrux but will have to die in the end.
a) Harry is a horcrux, and he will have to die in order to defeat Voldemort.
It’s quite feasible,ya know Ben!
Hey Oswald,everyone has their own views!Ben thinks that c) is the right option.It’s Ben’s view point
Peace!
OMG! i dont think that Harry should die common how would the book end? I think that they are right that ron and hermionie should hook up but then someone should want revenge on 1 of them and kill one of them and not harry. BTW[by the way] what is a horcrux?? I really wanna know so i can get in on some of thewse conversations … unless if its bad then never mind because i really dont want harry to die. Well Bye For Now,
OMG! i dont think that Harry should die common how would the book end? I think that they are right that ron and hermionie should hook up but then someone should want revenge on 1 of them and kill one of them and not harry. BTW[by the way] what is a horcrux?? I really wanna know so i can get in on some of thewse conversations … unless if its bad then never mind because i really dont want harry to die. Well Bye For Now,
Beth, read the 6th book in the series, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, and you’ll understand horcruxes.
OMG, i am so sorry travis! iYou just reminded me that i was supposed to read that.. i have had so much on my hands in the last few months that it has slipped my mind!?! Well i think that since noone will tell me that my answer for the above question would have to be e)i have absolutly no clue! Well if anyone would like to tell me i can jump intto these conversations…
Well Bye for NOw!
BTW[by the way], Travis i was just wondering why the post from the young gentleman was deleated? I was very interested on his view on the books and i think that it was a little discrimanatory on your behalf because he couldnt spell. Please think about it next time before deleting a serious comment! thank you very much!
Hello. My name (on websites) is PiMpGuRl and i am the sister of that young gentleman that which the comments you deleted. My younger brother contacted me yesterday afternoon and told me of this horrible website in which his comment was deleted. I was just wondering why his comment was deleted, and i would like an immediate response from this “Travis” person who i assume to be the owner of this website. Thank you for your time.
PiMpGuRl
Pimpgurl and Beth[again],
I’m not Travis (who is the guy who runs this blog ie. dungeonmaster) but if you really wanted an immediate and personal response as to why he decided to delete and posts you should leave a post in the “contact” area. Please remember that this is a blog and posting should be done in English and not in cell phone abbreviations. I didn’t read the post in question so I have no idea why it was deleted. It may have been because of any number of reasons and any reason that seems good to Travis must be good enough for the rest of us. It’s his site! I don’t think it’s fair to call this site horrible because a post was deleted and I’ve only seen Travis to be a reasonable and approachable fella. Your loyalty to your brother is commendable but the attitude isn’t. Just stay calm and post away! I’m sure there is lots to discuss.
Matt
I’d leave Matt’s comment as the only response, since he answered so well, but since an “immediate” response was demanded, here ya go!
Um…folks, I have a hard time believing a comment is meant to do anything but distract and be silly when it refers to Harry giving away “the ring” and Hermione getting stuck with oompa loompas and puppy dogs. This has nothing to do with the story whatsoever, and appeared to me to be an attempt at humor and silliness. I’ve been very clear about my comment expectations in other threads – keep it on task, (or even off-task but closely related to Harry Potter or the other subjects discussed), and we’ll be just fine.
I would certainly never delete a comment simply because of bad spelling.
I really don’t want to have to start holding comments for approval.
Hi
I would like to belive that it is D) Harry is not a Horcrux and he will not die. But i think it will Be A)Harry is a horcrux, and he will have to die in order to defeat Voldemort.
Dom
Thanks so much for informing me on that issue. I will be sure to keep the questions relevant to the subjset. Just one thing, what is a horcrust? I havent had time to read the book and i think that the answer to this question will help to be more actiwe on the posting and help me to better understand what is being said!
Thanks again for everyones help!?!
Beth
Kanika wrote,
I could not help myself. I have gone through a lot of sites talking about speculation that Harry is a horcrux and so on and so forth and also that Harry would die.
I just wanted to bring out some facts which speculators tend to forget…
1. You make a horcrux…if voldemort knew that somehow Harry is the prophecised end why would he put a part of his soul..which out to make him immortal in someone which he wants to kill??????I mean really..he is the most clever wizard..not a fool.
2. For the love of God…IT’S A CHILDREN BOOK!!!
with kids crazy about Harry Potter and the fact that Harry is the “Good†in this fight of Good vs. Evil….why would JKR kill harry????It is insane.
No matter what happens…Good triumphs over evil. It is certain Harry will overcome Voldemort…with love and something. It is not the question as to what will happen…what the question, my friend is…how!
Think about it.
…………………………………
In Her qoute i agree with number 2
as a teacher, i know many of my students are crazy about Harry Potter, and i have also read the first 3 stories to my class why would JKR kill Harry?
Beth, I hate to say anything about horcruxes if you haven’t read the book, but if you’re determined, look up horcruxes at either the Harry Potter Lexicon or Wikipedia, and I’m sure you’ll find a sufficient explanation.
Even if we take the “it’s just a children’s” book argument, that’s not enough to say Harry won’t die. JKR has said, “You are writing children’s books, you need to be a ruthless killer.” (Read the whole interview)
She’s very clearly not shying away from portraying death in even a very brutal manner.
Of course, there are only two possible outcomes.
1. Harry will live
2. Harry will die
1. a. If Harry lives, I think that it is unlikely that he is a horcrux. Other than that, I really have no idea, because there are so many ways that JKR can possibly set the whole thing up, that its almost impossible to speculate.
2. If Harry is a horcrux, I think that he will have to die. His mother died to save him, and it only makes him that he gives his life to end LV’s. Anycomments/questions are welcome
(P.S. Travis, I love the site, since everybody gets 2 express their opinion)
I think Harry will die in book 7. Not because of anthing in the story really, but mainly because JKR isn’t planning anything more for Harry and would not want anyone else to continue Harry’s story either. So she will send him off in some sort of heroic way.
Does anybody think that there might be a chance that Aunt Petunia may actually be a full-blown witch who never attended Hogwarts? This is just a guess, based on the fact that JRK said(and I quote)”She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh’ I am giving a lot way here. I am being SHOCKINGLY indiscreet”. She also said that the letter left with baby Harry when he was first delivered to the Durseleys was DD’s LAST letter, but that there were letters before. Aunt Petunia was in contact with DD even BEFORE his parents were killed. Why? Is it even possible that Petunia was somehow involved in the order? That for some unknown reason, that she decided to leave a life of magic behind? Maybe she was scared. She certainly knows a lot about the magic community, including dementors, Azkaban, LV. Do you guys think that Aunt Petunia may be revealed to be a witch in Book 7?
Ok, sctacth that, I just read that JKR said that Aunt Petunia is not magical, nor will she ever perform magic. Bummer.
To be honest i have no clue what will happen because there are so many possible options. However i am leaning toward the fact that the answer is ‘a’ because the author has said that she plans on making someone die.
i think draco will help harry destroy lord voldemort in the last book.
If harry was a horcrux wouldn’t dumbledore have seen this and told Harry before he was killed by that betraying snape and i think totally differant than number 57 shahmi harry would quite rightly kill malfoy (draco)
since its looks like draco is a pure death eater
daaim, check this out: I think (a) it’s possible that Dumbledore was planning to tell Harry about his scar being a horcrux, (b) that Snape is GOOD and killed Dumbledore on his orders, and (c) that Draco is not a “pure death eater,” would not have killed Dumbledore, and will, eventually, “come over to the right side.”
I think it’s either
B or C.
Whether Harry is a horcrux or not I do not think he will die at the end. Maybe I’m a wishful thinker, but I continue to hold out that good will conquer evil and love will conquer death, as it did in the beginning. I really feel Voldemort may end up killing himself by mistake again. It seems to me that voldemort has been moving toward self distruction ever since the scene in Godric’s hollow.
I don’t think that the prophecy has to be completely right.
Whether Harry is or was or was never a horcrux:
I feel that he is or was one. I’m of the thought that in the MoM when Voldemort possessed Harry the horcrux soul in Harry may have returned to Voldemort. I imagine that the soul is always to remain intact and even when it has been severed by murdering another, I think it still yearns to be near itself [or other half] and that if it can’t find itself it seeks to possess a body. Souls aren’t meant to be in inanimate objects but a living human being. A soul is the source of life in the body.
~~~~ I think I’m getting long winded.
I’m think Harry was a horcrux, but isn’t one anymore.
I think the trio will follow along the same path most of us have in discovering that Harry is a horcrux. They will seek out the portrait of Dumbledore for answers. Voldemort may use this information in the end to try and fool Harry into killing himself.
Sometimes I think the deeper I get into this mystery the strange my ideas become. Oh well.
If Harry does die, I don’t think I will feel this is a victory or a good ending. Harry must live, Voldemort must die.
harry cant be a horcrux because in order to kill voldy he would have to kill himself and last time i checked you cant kill when your dead
How do we know Harry would have to die in order to get rid of the horcrux?
If Snape really is good maybe he’ll sacrafice himself for harry to defeat voldemort what i mean is that he will say that he is with voldemort and then attack him he will die from real death eaters and harry has a clear shot at voldemort.
Its just an idea don’t think this will happen cos it can be totally differant who knows except for J.K Rowling
I dont think that Potty mite b a horcrux. one horcrux i can bloody well suggest is a old school sortn hat. in potty’s firts year the song sung the story of the founders tryin to fin a way to distinguish students the gryfindor took his hat, gave it powers. and since it has always been used in the school no would try to destroy it.
Rowling already ruled out the sorting hat as a horcrux.
I think people are forgetting that Professor Slughorn told Voldemort how to make a horocrux in the memory. First you kill someone, then you say an incantation to trap the peice of your torn soul inside. Meaning that Harry could not accidentally make Harry’s scar into a horocrux, and Harry was supposed to be his last murder for his 6th and final horocrux. Voldemort’s powers were drained and he lost his body after failing to kill Harry, so even if Harry’s scary was a horocrux, Voldemort couldn’t be able to hold a wand or have any power for the incantation. Also, Harry’s scar was a suvenior (is that how you spell it?) from Voldemort’s attack so Voldemort did not know that it was going to be their since the killing curse dosen’t cause damage to the body.
I think Harry is a horacrux but was accidentliy made one when Voldemort tried to kill him.Also, I heard that there is something fishy between Snape and Harry’s mom. And that something about her mom’s eyes is VERY important I wonder what it is. She said that it helps him survive or something.Also, Griyfindor’s 1st name was Godric, and Harry’s mom and dad lived in Godric’s Hollow……….hmmm fishy. Also, I wonder what HArry’s mom and Dad did as a job, I mean, the had a lot of money, and J.K. Rowling said that would be importatnt. Maybe they were aurors.
i donot think that the character of dubledore is over, i think that there was something going on with dumbledor and snape and that for some reason dubledor might have wanted snape to kill him.
bob, I agree Dumbledore and Snape were in cahoots, and they are both on the good side. Look up posts on Dumbledore and Snape on this website, and you’ll find some interesting stuff to support your thoughts.
i was recently thinking of something….. in dubledors office he has all of the old headmasters pictures on the wall and they can talk so maybe harry will still be able to talk to dumbledor so i just thought that i would put that out there to see what u guys think.
What the hell… Cass, you said that Ron and Hermione need to go out, NO no they don’y, what would happen when the broke up? The group would be screwed.End of story.Not aloowed to happen.
What the hell… Cass, you said that Ron and Hermione need to go out, NO no they don’y, what would happen when the broke up? The group would be screwed.End of story.Not aloowed to happen.
Nik, not that this is even the topic of this post in the first place…but I’m not really sure that works as an argument…Rowling doesn’t have to write them “breaking up,” does she?
Ron and Hermione are getting together and will do so. Unless one or both of them die.
you people r weird!!!!!!!!
i think that harry’s scar is a horcrux but voldy has to die
ya good point chris
this “Nik” person… omg….. u need to see that if ron and hermione DONT go out i might just burn the book…. ok
but probably not
ok
ok bye
~cass
Hmmmmmmmm
Hey guys, travis I love this blog and have been rereading all the books to try and justify alot of the comments within this thread.
Harry is not a Horcrux (JKR never states that a soul could be expanded i.e Harry soul is whole and cannot be added to) and he will kill LV, wormtail will payback the wizarding bond by taking a killing curse for Harry & Hagrids death will be the final straw in Harry’s quest for revenge. Giving him the almighty power of love which has been brewing in power Since his parents died.
Grawp will kill Nagini in some cool way, by dancing on it or something. Hopefully the Macarena…..
Then, I think Harry will live happily ever after with Ginny and the SCAR being the last word of the book will be a symbol of peacetime in the wizarding community ie a flag of some sort. There will be some serious shooting stars and the weasleys will sell out of fireworks. The muggles wont know what hit them.
Cheers
DMTT
And the gryffindor/ravenclaw horcrux is the sword/axe in the RoR. respectively
hello have you ever stop a thinked and said did you know that jk rowling is out facts that are happinind around the world in to her books.
p.s. have anyone lisn to the cd of hary potter books they are the best each charter has a different voice.
hello have you ever lisn to harry potter books on tape they are by jom dale. he dose the best job on them. if you have not lisn to them i say downloud them on book and you will love it.
ps have seen that jk rowling is puting facts from the real world in her books. just a note
Reid, yes, I have listened to the audio books. I have all of the books read by Stephen Fry, and I also have Half-Blood Prince read by Jim Dale. Overall, I think Stephen Fry does a better job, with these exceptions: Jim Dale does a much better Dumbledore, and he does better house-elves. Maybe a better Ron, too. And he almost always does better on the quirky minor characters.
Well if Harry is a Horcrux then we need to know how does a part of a soul of anyone can live inside of another living body, how could it manifestate. In that case is like Harry is possessed by a part of voldemort and we know what Voldemort felt being inside harry so… i don’t know…
I think Voldemort made Harry a Horcrux by accident when ripping his soul by killing Harry’s parents. He killed two people in the same night and so may not have been able to control that much evil – so it was directed into a Horcrux.
So I think Harry is a Horcrux but isnt going to die. I think Voldemort will try to kill Harry and wont be able to and so Harry will discover that he is the remaining Horcrux and so will do something about his scar – a sort of un-horcruxing spell – it wont have been tried before because people wouldnt expect him to be a Horcrux.
?I also think that Gryffindor’s sword my be a Horcrux, despite it being ’safe’ at Hogwarts; the chamber of secrets was in Hogwarts without anyone knowing an awful lot about it and the snakething was killing people too – and so I think there may have been an opportunity for Tom Riddle to make the sword a Horcrux.?
Also I think in the Half Blood Prince all the Horcruxes were mentioned – in the pensieve things – like the house where the ring was and the cave where the locket should have been. I think there might be a Horcrux in the orphanage as well.
I think Rowling may have given subtle hints throughout the book – I just re-read it and realised that it kept saying things like the half blood prince taught Harry more than Snape ever would – lol
Also JKR said that book 6 and 7 are inter-linked that it is like a two-part novel ; so maybe there are loads of big clues that nobody realises.
In other words there are loads of different ways that book 7 could play out and I think it is still pretty much open and so my vote is for e – I havent got a clue.
*I think Voldemort will try to kill Harry and wont be able to *
because Voldemort is in Harry and so killing him would be killing himself.
It’s like Harry nearly enede up in Slytherin because of the imprint Voldemort left on him.
I don’t think the sword of gryffindor is a horcrux because the Tom Riddle that came out of the diary was only a part of the soul of Voldemort and as i understand, you need to be a complete body with soul, flesh and bones to make a horcrux. And if he made a horcrux… remember that Ginny was possessed by him by that time so he couldn’t because if he did it he was ripping a part of soul of ginny not his…
Okay, so this is my first time on this website, so my entry may be fairly long. First of all, I have to ask one major thing that crossed my mind. It is clear that R.A.B. was the one that took the locket from the cave. However, the only known way to do this is to drink the green potion and as I recall, the basin was full of the poison when Harry and Dumbledore arrived. So, that means that either the basin is jinxed to refill (unlikely seeing as Voldemort never suspected anyone to enter the cave even once) or that someone refilled the basin with poison. That person would more than likely Voldermort, but yet yet again, why would Voldemort do that. To enter the cave again would mean knowing that the locket was gone and there would be nothing to guard. The only reason I can think of is that Voldemort suspected Dumbledore to come along and wanted to weaken him for the kill. And of course the other possibility is that R.A.B. refilled it when he was there but as the book said, Voldemort invented the potion so that would be unlikely. The next thing I wanted to say is concerning R.A.B. I considered him well known information however nobody has spoken of him on this web page so I may as well go and do it. I have every reason to suspect that the charachter has already been mentioned in on of the books as this is very much JK ROWLING’s style of writting. I have read and reread the books many times and the only person I can find that fits the description is Sirius’ brother, Regulus Black. Apart from the initials, it makes perfect sense. The little known imformation we have on him states that he was killed by Voldemort, or more likely his followers, because he betrayed the Dark Lord. And now we have a reason. The note left in lthe locket also appers that R.A.B. knew Voldemort personally. And so that’s that. But there’s more. As we, the well devoted Harry Potter fans, know, it takes two people to retrieve the locket. One has to drink the potion and one has to have the stringht to take the locket and get himself out of the cave alive (with his partner if desired). Regulus however had no one to turn to. Everybody he knew was a Death Eater that would more than likely turn him in to Voldemort. There is one well known person that he could have asked, or demanded, help from. Kreature, his house elf that would follow his every command. And know Kreature belongs to Harry and Harry can command him to tell himself anything he wants. Furthermore, we are briefly introduced to a locket in OOTP when Harry, Hermione, and Ron are cleaning Grimauld place. It is described as a heavy locket that none of them could open. However, Mudungus Fletcher has a habbit of stealing items from Grimauald place and selling them which would make Harry’s job all the more difficult. Already my entry has become longer than i suspected but i’m not going to stop. But before I go on, I want to mention a book. What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7 by Ben Schoen, Emerson Spartz, Andy Gordon, Gretchen Stull, and Jamie Lawrence is a book I highly recommend to all you crazy Harry Potter fans out there. It has quite a bit of speculations, many of which are mentioned on this page and many of which I have never heard of before, and they all have lots of proof from all six books and lots of quotes directly from JK ROWLING. Here I am just going to mention a couple of ideas. First of all, the authors believe that the night that Harry’s parents were murdered, Voldemort was not alone. JK ROWLING herself has dodged this question. Also, many fans are curious as to if Harry Potter is a decended of Godric Griffindor. After all, only a true Griffindor could have pulled that [sword] out of the hat. And as to how JK ROWLING answered the question, you’d almost difinitly think yes. The book also startes that the following will make a final appearence in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Rita Skeeter, Viktor Krum, Dolores Umbridge, the Ford Anglia, the sorting hat, the two way mirrors, and Sirius’ flying motorbike. The book also thinks that the Mirror of Erised will not appear again as it has already served it’s purpose. Also note that JK ROWLING has written the last chappter as a epilogue, stating what happens to the charachters after the book. The last word of the book is scar. She has also given clues that Harry Potter does not survive. Finnaly, I am 99.9% sure that Snape is good and that he will save Harry’s life in book 7. I also think that Wormtail will play a HUGE part in book 7. After many years of eavsdropping, he isn’t as dumb as we might have thought. And anyway, remember life dept? Apart from the book, I was also wondering if anyone is to know how James Potter got the Invisibility cloak in the first place. They are supposed to be extreamely rare. Before I go, I was just wanting to follow up on one or two previous entries. For starters, JK ROWLING for certain did not write the book for children. The books have gotten darker and more evil in each one and if parents are not careful, their children may be waking up from nighmares. However it is a great book. I also believe that Harry was a Horcrux and isn’t anymore. I’m currently suffering from serious depresion as I am going to be in France when both the movie and the book comes out and I think that the book will be fairly hard to find to find in English as well as i’m fairly certain that the movie will be dubbed over in French. Lastly, if any of you run into Daniel Radclif on the street, ask him if he is looking for a bride anytime soon. If he says yes, recomend me. Thank you so much.
Just got a peek at the Scholastic cover for Book 7. Neither Harry nor Voldemort have wands in their outstretched hands. What can that mean? I assume they’re at Hogwarts because I see what appears to be alcoves like the school has. And there are many people watching–students and professors, perhaps?
The British children’s version is more revealing. It has an identical reddish-orange sky with Harry, Hermione and Ron possibly in battle or flight, surrounded by artifacts, coins and other treasures. I’m guessing the artifacts are the Horcruxes, or the Deathly Hallows? The most fascinating and revealing part of this cover is the small figure behind Harry. Only a tiny head with pointed ears is visible, with it’s bony arm raised holding a sword. Is this Dobby with the Sword of Gryffindor behind Harry? (please, NOT Kreacher)? I choose to believe it is Dobby taking a stand for the house-elves and against Voldemort. The scene could be Gringotts–only a guess because of the coins and valuables. Maybe one or some of the horcruxes are at Gringotts?
I’m eager for other opinions.
Okay, Travis. You haven’t written since November 19, 06. Is this website still active? I’m really eager to hear your imput!
I also saw the cover of the new book although i did not see the hand of, i hope, Dobby. I was trying to read the back ogf the book but it was to small. ####!
Sarafina, sorry! With so much activity on this site, sometimes comments or even entire discussions slip away from me.
You’ve written about a wide variety of subjects in your post, almost all of which don’t fit under this particular post content! Nevertheless, here are a few responses:
I think Regulus is the generally accepted educated guess for R.A.B. I haven’t spent much time on this site with that question, ’cause it seems to me Regulus is obvious. As for the refilling of the basin with the green potion, professor mum has an interesting theory on that one: Voldemort entrusted the locket horcrux to Bellatrix, telling her to put it in the cave, but Regulus made the switch before she placed it in the cave.
If this theory is incorrect, Kreacher is an interesting possibility for the person who went with Regulus.
Thanks for the tip on the book. I’d recommend “What Will Harry Do?” by Janet Scott Batchler as a good book for the same purpose of thinking about what will happen in book 7.
I hope things go well for you in France and that you’re able to see the movie and read the book in English!
Has anyone read the Bartimaeus Trilogy by Stroud? If so I think Harry will die in much the same way as Nathaniel. If no one has read it, The basic story is a bout a great magician called Nathaniel, member of the government, who sacrifices himself to save the world from demons. Harry (if he dies) will probably die in much the same way as a sacrifice because he finds out he’s a horcrux. If not, he might die because of insufficient power/knowledge unless he spends much of the last book readiong up on powerful/darkish magic. Lets face it, Harry has never showed any signs of being a great wizard and Voldemort is the most powerful wizard and has had much experience in killing magic.
SOMEONE PLZ ANSWER OR SEND FEEDBACK TO MY COMMENT!
PS:don’t hate me
Boggart, Harry’s final battle with Voldemort is unlikely to be a matter of spells and curses. As you say, Voldemort is powerful and experienced. Harry’s attempts in the Unforgivable Curses haven’t been that successful to date. Which, by the way, is a good thing. Harry needs to keep his soul intact in order to use the power that he does have, and which VOldemort does not have: love. That’s what he will use to defeat Voldemort. Obviously he’s not going to love Voldemort to death; rather, his love will allow him to do things which will either destroy Voldemort, or take away any power he has over Harry.
I think Harry will die as well, but nor for the reasons you give. Rather, his death will be a necessary step for the destruction of Voldemort. And afterwards? Well, there has been foreshadowing that he might return, perhaps helped by Fawkes.
Reyhan, those are some great insights. I’m kind of dissapointed though because I thought he would be powerful and be of above normal talent, the third book strenghtened that belief(when he drove away the dementors with his powerful Patronus), but I guess there’s too much evidence pointing towards love as you say.
Well, like Dumbledore said, never underestimate the power of love.
Harry does have a great deal of talent and power. His conjuring of the Patronus is advanced magic, as Hermione says. His examiner for the DADA OWL is very impressed that he can do this. He is also able to resist an Imperius spell the first time he tries to. This impresses both Barty Crouch Jr (aka “Mad Eye” Moody) and Snape himself (see OooP). He is able to overcome Voldemort in wand-to-wand combat, forcing his wand to Priori Incantatem. He is able to exorcise Voldemort at the Ministry of Magic in OotP.
The way he does this is what leads me to argue that he will ultimately defeat Voldemort through the power of love.
We tend to think of love as a soft and tender emotion. We don’t equate it with power (nor does Harry). In itself, love doesn’t move mountains. But it allows people who feel it to move mountains. I think that love will give Harry power over death, and that is how he will defeat Voldemort.
If you think about it, the power to transcend death is the ultimate power. It’s not as flashy as spells and curses and Aveda Kedavra. It’s older, deeper magic.
I think.
Reyhan,
Lol. How right you are.HEARTIUS VALENTINEUS!
:O
Reyhan,
I have the uncomfortable feeling that what you’re describing is the central concept of the Matrix series, not of the Harry Potter series.
Rowling has talked about the absolute finality of death as one of the key themes of the series.
If love is to allow one to transcend death, then the Professor of Love himself, Albus Dumbledore, would surely be doing a Gandalf. But he’s not. It would make no sense at all, from where I stand, for Harry to morph into Neo and hop behind the veil and back unscathed.
After six and a half books about the finality of death, I *really* don’t think that Rowling is about to lose the plot in the closing pages and say “Ha ha, I was only kidding and you really can die and come back after all”.
S_B, I lost interest in the Matrix around the mid-point of #2, but I do get your point. And I agree with you: it would cheapen death if one could reverse it at will. And I accept that JKR has said about its absolute finality. Once you’re dead, you’re dead.
Dumbledore is dead. His death was actually overdetermined: if the earlier encounter that led to the shrivelled hand didn’t kill him (see: Stoppered Death theories), then the green potion in the cave did; and if the green potion didn’t do him in, Snape’s Aveda Kedavra did; and if the AV didn’t, then surely the fall of the Astronomy Tower did. He won’t come back.
Harry’s parents are dead. Lots of evidence for that, including Voldemort’s wand doing a Priori Incantem. They won’t come back.
But, and I’ve asked this question before: would walking (or falling, as the case may be) through the veil in the Chamber of Death kill you? Various people, including a ghost, have told Harry that Sirius Black won’t come back. For me, there are at least three possible reasons why that could be. First, Bellatrix’ curse killed him, and he was already dead before he went through the veil, so he won’t come back. Second, the curse didn’t kill him, but once you’re on the other side, you can’t come back. Third, the curse didn’t kill him, but he can’t come back because he doesn’t know how to come back. See where I’m going with this?
If Harry did walk through the veil, and then came back, he wouldn’t be doing a Gandalf. He’d be doing an Orpheus. Can’t remember what guided Orpheus out of Hades. I suspect that if it does work out the way I’ve described, Harry’s guide will be no other than that symbol of resurrection, Fawkes. And I think that he’ll be accompanied by a large, black dog.
That’s how it could happen. And I don’t think it would violate the dead-is-dead rule.
However, that’s not the heart of my argument. What’s driving this whole line of conjecture is the blinding realization I had that Voldemort has no power over someone who is not afraid of death. To me, that explains both how Harry was able to rid himself of Voldemort’s posession at the end of OotP, and why Voldemort was almost destroyed when he tried to kill Harry and killed Lily Potter instead. I have already explained how I think it’s love which gives people the ability to transcend death. It doesn’t mean they won’t die. It means they’re not afraid to die. So for me, the essential point about the love/death/resurrection arc is not that Harry will come back, but that he will not be afraid to cross the veil because of love. I think – I could be wrong on this as I could be with everything else – I think it will be his love of Sirius Black which will take him there.
If this is what happens, and if he does come back – with or without Siruius Black (and the Orpheus legend would suggest without), then I think it will be through the love and mercy and grace of Dumbledore, who will lend him Fawkes one last time.
And once it’s done, then Voldemort can’t posess Harry any more. His power over him is gone.
Fanciful? Probably. But at least one of the premises rests on a bedrock of canon. What happened just before Voldemort stopped possesing Harry in OooP? Harry wanted to die, and thought longingly of seeing Sirius Black again.
Just to make myself clear. Transcending death doesn’t mean coming back from death. It means not being afraid to die. The coming back would be a bonus, a final gift perhaps, from Dumbledore.
I agree with Reyhan,
I know that Rowling has said that dead is dead. She has also said that if you know the Bible (or understand Christianity) that you’ll be able to see what’s coming a mile off.
The Bible describes that when Jesus died many holy people came out of their tombs and witnessed throughout Jerusalem. As I mentioned in an earlier post Harry dying or going beyond the veil may allow other wizards to take up the fight again or not…
In any case I think it will be more a case Enoch rather than Christ.
I also wonder about the “doing a Gandalf” comments. Obviously he was dead, but he was SENT back to complete his task not came back because he felt like it.
Where am I going with this? Don’t know.
Matthew
Reyhan,
No argument that love may be a force that enables one to be unafraid of death – so, to it may enable one to transcend fear of death and therefore, maybe, to die unafraid.
However you seem to propose it as self-evident that transcending fear of death is equal to transcending death itself. Ie if Harry is not afraid to die he will either not be able to die, or he will die but somehow rebound – that death will offer him back up to life.
But in that regard, we already know it is no deal. We’ve had ample evidence that Dumbledore was not afraid to die (and perhaps Nicholas Flamel, too). But they did not – and are not likely to – return from death.
So, in short, love may be a mechanism transcending fear of death, but you’ve yet to make a case for it to be the mechanism through which Harry will transcend death itself. IOW there is a sizeBle gap in your logic.
That aside, in addition to the Matrix, I think you also are allowing yourself to slip sideways into Narnia, where the sacrificial table cracks and death itself is denied, when Aslan invokes “older, deeper magic”.
Strangely enough, I think Rowling is a genuinely creative person who is actually writing her own story. I do not think she is in the business of re-packaging Lucas, Lewis, Tolkien nor even the Wachowskis. Tempting though it may be to see such parallels.
It was Dumbledore who used the term “old (or older) magic” in describing what Lily Potter had wrought. Not me. I am too aware of the link to Narnia to throw that term out carelessly.
Fear of death and death itself are not the same thing. Obviously. You may not be afraid to die, but you can still die, as did Dumbledore.
Harry will transcend his fear of death because of his love for Sirius (and maybe others as well: Lily and James and Dumbledore are all now behind the veil). He has already done this in OooP, although under extreme pressure. He may be able to do it again.
That he can do it, I’m sure of. Why he will do it, I’m uncertain of. WHile it’s tempting to argue that he will go to see his loved ones again, I doubt it. He does have a mission, which he’s accepted, of vanquishing Voldemort on this side of the veil. He’s not ready to die. I think he will go because he will need to find out something which he can only get from the other side.
He will go without any expectation or guarantee of coming back. He wil go because he must. And he will go without fear because of the love he has for the ones on the other side.
What happens after that is even more uncertain. He will probably come back, mainly because the mission has to be completed. I already explained how Dumbledore’s love and Fawkes may help him to come back.
Please be clear on this. My theory is that Harry will transcend his fear of death. I’m not saying that he will transcend death.
Matthew, I agree with your theory that Harry’s going beyond the veil is going to wake up a few dead people. I’ve argued elsewhere that the term Deathly Hallows refers to the four founders of Hogwarts (interpreting the word “Hallows” as meaning “saints” or “holy people”). The fact that they’re described as “Deathly” – and interpreting deathly as meaning dangerous – suggests that they won’t be benign, and may potentially be dangerous to Harry. Or Voldemort.
Gandalf died. Orpheus didn’t. Neither did Enoch. JKR said that Dumbledore wouldn’t be doing a Gandalf. She did not say that Harry wouldn’t be doing an Orpheus. Or Enoch.
Unlees Harry goes back to Hogwarts (unlikely to the extreme) or spends half the last book researching evil and powerful magic, I don’t see how he can do everything that we’ve been talking about. I don’t see how he’ll get past Voldy’s defences, I mean there is that love thing, but that can only take him so far. Without increasing his magical strenght I don’t see how he’ll get past unadultered magic which can’t be affected by love alone. Plus, there are all those Death Eaters, Giants and Dementors sure to be lurking about.
I just had a brainwave ~
If the Dementors are on Voldemort’s side, then to get by them, Harry will have to conjure a Patronus. There has been much emphasis on love in the books and if you guys remember, in the third book (and movie) it was said that to conjure a Patronus Harry’s happy thought was of talking to his parents,can there be a greater love than that? I think that in the seventh book, Prongs will ride again and lead Harry out of the darkness of the veil.
To Reyhan, seriously_black and all others, please give your thoughts
Boggart, we don’t know enough about what will happen in DH to say with any certainty how it will happen.
The path Harry will follow, however, has been identified this far: he needs to find and destroy the remaining four Horcruxes. Once he destroys the Horcruxes, then in theory, all it will take to destroy Voldemort is one carefully applied Aveda Kedavra curse. Which Snape, amongst others, is more than qualified to do.
Now Voldemort has quite a lot of help. Fenrir. Bellatrix. Wormtail. Motley crew of giants (?), werewolves (?), goblins (?), Dementors, vampires (Scrimgeour, anyone?), whichever Death Eaters survived the battle of the tower, and any turncoats we are unaware of.
But so does Harry: the Order, especially Lupin and Moody, all the Weasleys, including Ginny who is the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter, not to mention Hermione who is a repository of knowledge, and the indispensible, faithful sidekick, Ron. And, I would speculate, they will be joined by Padfoot at some point.
There are also characters whose loyalties are ambiguous: Snape, Draco and Wormtail, any one of whom might well tip the balance at the crucial point.
Anyways, my point is that Harry won’t be fighting alone. And I seriously doubt that he will deliver the final blow. His job is to take care of the Horcruxes, rendering Voldemort mortal. I think that he will need to go beyond the veil to answer a vital question about a suspected Horcrux. Maybe – and this is wild conjecture – Voldemort himself will do something which will backfire on him, destroying him.
As for your theory about Prongs. Well, as the Dementors appear to have switched over to Voldemort’s team, I don’t doubt that there’ll be a lot of Patronus spells used. But I don’t see Prongs having a major role beyond the veil. Prongs represents happiness, which Harry will find a lot of, given who’s already there. My money is on Fawkes, who already has a very strong association with resurrection – as well as already having led Harry out of a literal underground in CoS.
Boggart, I thought some more about your theory about Prongs in the land-beyond-the-veil. Not so much about Prongs specifically, but about the role of a Patronus.
Fawkes is Dumbledore’s pet. He has acted as his messenger and his emissary. Almost like his familiar. I was thinking that he might continue to help Harry by acting as Dumbledore’s familiar, bringing him messages, leading Harry to clues, guiding him back from beyond the veil, and so on.
But Dumbledore’s Patronus is also a phoenix. And the Order has used Patronuses as messengers as well. If a Patronus can continue to exist beyond the veil, then Dumbledore’s Patronus might serve as Harry’s guide in the great beyond.
We don’t really know the rules on the other side, so probably your guess is as good as mine.
Reyhan, I was under the impression that Fawkes was indeed dead. I know that there is that regeneration thing, but to me at least, it seemed that Fawkes, in his grief(as was proved by his miserable song) had indeed finished himself so as to not come back. And if Dumbledore is dead I don’t see how his Patronus would come into play.
JK Rowling is an exellent writter. Did it ever cross your mind that all of our theories may be incorrect. The purpose of a searies is to surprise us, and i believe that Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows will do just that.
Of course that occured to me! Whatever we come up with on this site won’t detract from the surprise when book 7 is released. And it doesn’t make it less interesting to talk about- knowing that we may be wrong.
Matthew
Excext that, after *some* of the things I’ve read on this site, *nothing* would surprise me.
Sarafina,
Further to your comment regarding how the purpose of a series is to surprise us, that is true within reason. Obviously Rowling is not going to come up with anything that is inconsistant with what she has already written. We’re going to be able, with the joy of hindsight, to see hints of the final outcome and ask ourselves “Why didn’t I take notice of that?”.
It would be truely surprising if Deathly Hallows contained much that wasn’t suggested in the previous novels.
Matthew
I dreamed about Deathly Hallows last night.
OOOOOOOh the things that are revealed!
But what I cannot work out is why Rowling made it look like rural New South Wales and not Britain.
Matthew
I believe Harry will KNOW death. He doesn’t fear it. He’s attracted to it. Voldy does fear it obviously. There’s where Harry has the upper hand. He’ll drag Voldy into the grasp of death but Harry will escape it. And those that love Harry that are now in the beyond will help Harry get Voldy. Sounds simplistic, but hey, I’m not one for long drawn out explanations.
Oh, yeah. Those that love Harry and are alive will keep him from leaving their world. They’ll give him what he needs to want to stay in the world. His reward will come soon enough, as it does for us all.
2 CHARACTERZ WILL DIE. HP AND VOLD. HP IS HORCRUX AND WILL KILL HIMSELF TRUST THIS COMMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
c)Harry is not a hurcrux, but he will die.
I just have a feeling that this is going ti happen.
A question: Why I should trust your comment Ronald Potter SP2? Why do you thing Harry is a hurcrux?
MIMU
I have been thinking about the end of Philosopher’s Stone and how events in it may foreshadow events in Deathly Hallows. If the books have a chiastic structure, and we’ve seen that already, then I think we’ll get a good indicator of the final events.
I posted elsewhere about the possibility of Neville being the one who may finally defeat Voldemort. The points that he was awarded at the end of year feast won the cup for Gryffindor. I think he’ll do the same in the coming story.
The tests the the trio have to get through in PS will be similar to the final book. I think that like in the chess game Ron will sacrifice his life to allow Harry and Hermione to carry the fight against Voldemort further. Ron will become a great fighting wizard in DH. I think his selection of himself as a Knight chess piece is the main indicator.
I think Snape will have to overcome by the goodies in DH. I think it will be Hermione to do this. She was the one who was able to solve Snape’s potion challenge in PS with logic. She’ll be the one to nut out his plotting in DH and defeat him.
The final confrontation between Harry and Voldemort will be wandless like the end of PS. There’ll still be plenty of magic used, though.
Matthew
Matthew, I agree that Ron will sacrifice his life in DH just for the reasons you give – the foreshadowing in PS – but more recently I’ve been wondering if Neville and Ginny will also die. Reason: when the six DAs are sniffing around the veil in book 5, Harry is fascinated, Luna is calm, Hermione impatient and frightened, and Ginny and Neville have to be literally dragged away. I’m thinking that the ones who are fascinated – Harry, Ginny and Neville – will go through, and only one will return.
It’s just a hunch.
Travis: are you going to give us a structured forum where we can post all of our prognostictions for book 7? You could call it Sybill’s Corner.
Reyhan, are you looking for an actual foru with various DH prediction topics, or just a post that guides us all in that direction? If it’s the former, I’m going to need a tech-elf for that! I’d be willing to have something like that happen, but I don’t have the time to put it together. Matthew and I discussed a possible “second life” thing (I’d never heard of it before), but I haven’t had the time for that either, sadly.
If a few people are willing to launch a forum and know how to get it linked to this site, and you think you can get it launched by the end of this weekend, I’d be glad to have that happen. I’ve got a second administrative username and password that I’d give to those involved. It might be a nice follow-up to the final pre-DH PubCast as well.
It would also have to come with the understanding that it’s temporary. I’m not interested in moderating a forum full time, so it’d be up for the week prior to DH, and then we’d go back to only posts, pubcasts, and comments.
If anyone’s interested in taking up this project, send me an E-Owl. Otherwise, by the end of the weekend, I’ll put up a post where everyone can write tomes of predictions, which will, of course, be rather difficult to navigate, but potentially fun for those with time to read and contribute this coming week.
Travis, that’ll teach me to be more careful with how I choose my words! I meant “forum” in the sense of a post where we could record our final predictions. Not a website kind of forum. Don’t scare me like that, man, I’m no techn-elf!
On another post, I made a list of 20 key questions which need to be answered (Hog’s Head PubCast #29; Comment #60) To them I’d add a 21st: what is the meaning of the title of the 7th book? Others might have other questions.
I think if you posted a given set of questions like those, it would structure things somewhat. Also, we’d have to try to keep things brief, and not discuss, because it might become quite unwieldy to navigate through, like you said.
harry potter will die.
period.
I’m thinking JKR will think of something creative, but I have no idea as to what that might be.
b) Harry is a horcrux, but he will find away to destroy the horcrux within him and live, while defeating Voldemort.
PERIOD.
why are you fighting with eatch other? you should wait until you see whats gonna happen to potter! look travis im not a bad person but i think that harry should die at the end of the story because JKR wants this to finish. and we can not do any thing to stop that! the problem is now dumbeldore is dead & there is no one to help harry in his job!
i really wanted harry to marry with cho and live happily ever after!
my idea is harry is a horcr
ux because of his scar!
it was nice to know you!
PS.i love this site!