Comments on: Strange Bedfellows http://thehogshead.org/strange-bedfellows-484/ Harry Potter News and Commentary Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:43:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: SeaJay http://thehogshead.org/strange-bedfellows-484/comment-page-1/#comment-203523 SeaJay Mon, 03 Sep 2007 21:43:29 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/08/21/strange-bedfellows/#comment-203523 I am just passing through and I wanted to say that I find the whole discussion very interesting. However I doubt in the end that good and evil can be discerned by the use of the intellect. The intellect, and language for that matter, have a way of tying everything up in knots and of turning the blindingly obvious inside out. However I can see that saying the above does not help at all... Still I know for a fact that I enjoyed reading the Harry Potter series more than I can easily explain :o) I am just passing through and I wanted to say that I find the whole discussion very interesting.

However I doubt in the end that good and evil can be discerned by the use of the intellect. The intellect, and language for that matter, have a way of tying everything up in knots and of turning the blindingly obvious inside out.

However I can see that saying the above does not help at all…

Still I know for a fact that I enjoyed reading the Harry Potter series more than I can easily explain :o )

]]> By: Carla Lute http://thehogshead.org/strange-bedfellows-484/comment-page-1/#comment-193143 Carla Lute Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:03:10 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/08/21/strange-bedfellows/#comment-193143 I think what baffles me most is the works they put up as "good" literature. Beowolf and the Illiad are excellent reading but Harry Potter isn't? Neither of those stories hold up a purely Christian morality. I ran across the same thing in Abanes second book when he listed Gulliver's Travels along side Charlotte's web. I'm thinking O_O have you read Gulliver's Travels? That's no kids' book. All literature is an exercise in discernment, gleaning the good from the bad and the questionable. And asking questions. I think what baffles me most is the works they put up as “good” literature. Beowolf and the Illiad are excellent reading but Harry Potter isn’t? Neither of those stories hold up a purely Christian morality.

I ran across the same thing in Abanes second book when he listed Gulliver’s Travels along side Charlotte’s web. I’m thinking O_O have you read Gulliver’s Travels? That’s no kids’ book.

All literature is an exercise in discernment, gleaning the good from the bad and the questionable. And asking questions.

]]> By: Scott http://thehogshead.org/strange-bedfellows-484/comment-page-1/#comment-192067 Scott Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:32:43 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/08/21/strange-bedfellows/#comment-192067 Travis, it's interesting you mention Ted Baehr. I had an email argument with him once about his review of the movie Titanic. He was largely bashing the movie for historical inaccuracies. Being something of a Titanic nut also, I know James Cameron went well into the realm of obsessive to make the movie as historically accurate as possible. There were things you could criticize that movie for, but the historical facts were not one. Ted Baehr did not let the facts get in the way of his opinions. Travis, it’s interesting you mention Ted Baehr. I had an email argument with him once about his review of the movie Titanic. He was largely bashing the movie for historical inaccuracies. Being something of a Titanic nut also, I know James Cameron went well into the realm of obsessive to make the movie as historically accurate as possible. There were things you could criticize that movie for, but the historical facts were not one. Ted Baehr did not let the facts get in the way of his opinions.

]]> By: Travis Prinzi http://thehogshead.org/strange-bedfellows-484/comment-page-1/#comment-191978 Travis Prinzi Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:13:01 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/08/21/strange-bedfellows/#comment-191978 <strong>Sandra</strong>, that's correct - loonies like Berit Kjos actually attack Narnia for its use of pagan deities and magic, which is far more consistent an approach than that of Ted Baehr and You-Know-Who, who think Narnia is edifying Christian literature while HP is dangerous. Sandra, that’s correct – loonies like Berit Kjos actually attack Narnia for its use of pagan deities and magic, which is far more consistent an approach than that of Ted Baehr and You-Know-Who, who think Narnia is edifying Christian literature while HP is dangerous.

]]> By: Kjetil Kringlebotten http://thehogshead.org/strange-bedfellows-484/comment-page-1/#comment-191756 Kjetil Kringlebotten Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:18:25 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/08/21/strange-bedfellows/#comment-191756 <b>Reyhan</b>, <i>"As a Maiar, Gandalf's power comes from the creator, i.e. God, and is dedicated to the fight of good over evil. His use of magic is very unlike the magic of Harry and his friends which is, as Scott said, neutral."</i> But Saruman also got his powers from the creator --- yet he chose to use it for evil, to join with Sauron. So Tolkien is also telling us to use our abilities for good. The difference is that in HP more people are wizards (but many people are not.) It also resembles X-Men. And Superman. Reyhan, “As a Maiar, Gandalf’s power comes from the creator, i.e. God, and is dedicated to the fight of good over evil. His use of magic is very unlike the magic of Harry and his friends which is, as Scott said, neutral.”

But Saruman also got his powers from the creator — yet he chose to use it for evil, to join with Sauron. So Tolkien is also telling us to use our abilities for good.

The difference is that in HP more people are wizards (but many people are not.) It also resembles X-Men. And Superman.

]]> By: Eeyore http://thehogshead.org/strange-bedfellows-484/comment-page-1/#comment-191715 Eeyore Sun, 26 Aug 2007 15:30:12 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/08/21/strange-bedfellows/#comment-191715 I did search the site for an article about Pullman and found one, written by Elizabeth O'Brien--his wife, I suppose? Anyway, interestingly enough, it's not about the books, just about the upcoming movie. There are quite a few quotes attributed to Pullman, but I tried to check the link and it didn't work. I'll try again later--my computer was acting funny the other day. Pat I did search the site for an article about Pullman and found one, written by Elizabeth O’Brien–his wife, I suppose? Anyway, interestingly enough, it’s not about the books, just about the upcoming movie. There are quite a few quotes attributed to Pullman, but I tried to check the link and it didn’t work. I’ll try again later–my computer was acting funny the other day.

Pat

]]> By: Sandra Miesel http://thehogshead.org/strange-bedfellows-484/comment-page-1/#comment-191683 Sandra Miesel Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:37:52 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/08/21/strange-bedfellows/#comment-191683 Ah, but there are hardshelled fundamentalists who fulminate against Lewis and Tolkien. I wasted a couple of hours last night mucking around in their websites. (Muck is literal here.)I was struck by the parallels between their attacks and O'Brien's. He uses a more literate vocabulary and invokes philosophical/theological terms but the manner of arguing, with its distortions, selective readings, blatant misstatements of fact, proofs by assertion and bad references is quite similar. At the core, these "Vigilant" critics don't understand symbolism, a fatal defect. O'Brien, to my knowledge, has not spoken against Philip Pullman. I suspect that the highly visible popularity of HP is what goads him. Ah, but there are hardshelled fundamentalists who fulminate against Lewis and Tolkien. I wasted a couple of hours last night mucking around in their websites. (Muck is literal here.)I was struck by the parallels between their attacks and O’Brien’s. He uses a more literate vocabulary and invokes philosophical/theological terms but the manner of arguing, with its distortions, selective readings, blatant misstatements of fact, proofs by assertion and bad references is quite similar. At the core, these “Vigilant” critics don’t understand symbolism, a fatal defect.

O’Brien, to my knowledge, has not spoken against Philip Pullman. I suspect that the highly visible popularity of HP is what goads him.

]]> By: reyhan http://thehogshead.org/strange-bedfellows-484/comment-page-1/#comment-190868 reyhan Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:12:46 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/08/21/strange-bedfellows/#comment-190868 Well, there is also the matter of the association between witches and the devil. Modern day Wiccans may argue this until they're blue, but the common perception of witches is that they worship the devil. A lot of people think very literally, and think in black-and-white terms. Their only understanding of witchcraft is the traditional one. And the traditional definition is definitely anti-God. Although I agree that JKR is atracting more flak simply because the books are so popular, I think Tolkien would also be in the black books of the fundamentalists if he had chosen to write of witches. Well, there is also the matter of the association between witches and the devil. Modern day Wiccans may argue this until they’re blue, but the common perception of witches is that they worship the devil.

A lot of people think very literally, and think in black-and-white terms. Their only understanding of witchcraft is the traditional one. And the traditional definition is definitely anti-God.

Although I agree that JKR is atracting more flak simply because the books are so popular, I think Tolkien would also be in the black books of the fundamentalists if he had chosen to write of witches.

]]> By: Scott http://thehogshead.org/strange-bedfellows-484/comment-page-1/#comment-190801 Scott Sat, 25 Aug 2007 22:06:16 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/08/21/strange-bedfellows/#comment-190801 That's true Matthew, but that is a perception you have while reading it. It's kinda like inside insight. You know Tolkien's real beliefs so when you read that, you know what he's writing about. I think most people that read those books do not. Eeyore, you are mostly right. The bulk of Tolkien's worldview is presented in The Silmarillion and the other material published by his son, like Lost Tales. I know that most people don't read all that, like I do. As I've said elsewhere, I'm a Tolkien freak. I think that's why people like Peter Jackson and most of the cast of the movies could read the trilogy and not really "get" them. I read interviews with a number of them where they talked about the great environmental themes in the stories and stuff like that. And that was in there. Tolkien had a huge dislike for industries that ruined the landscape where he grew up. So I might tend to say, now that you point it out to me, that maybe Tolkien is acceptable to a lot of people of all beliefs if they don't learn too much about the author, and acceptable to Christians if they do. That’s true Matthew, but that is a perception you have while reading it. It’s kinda like inside insight. You know Tolkien’s real beliefs so when you read that, you know what he’s writing about. I think most people that read those books do not. Eeyore, you are mostly right. The bulk of Tolkien’s worldview is presented in The Silmarillion and the other material published by his son, like Lost Tales. I know that most people don’t read all that, like I do. As I’ve said elsewhere, I’m a Tolkien freak.
I think that’s why people like Peter Jackson and most of the cast of the movies could read the trilogy and not really “get” them. I read interviews with a number of them where they talked about the great environmental themes in the stories and stuff like that. And that was in there. Tolkien had a huge dislike for industries that ruined the landscape where he grew up.
So I might tend to say, now that you point it out to me, that maybe Tolkien is acceptable to a lot of people of all beliefs if they don’t learn too much about the author, and acceptable to Christians if they do.

]]> By: korg20000bc http://thehogshead.org/strange-bedfellows-484/comment-page-1/#comment-190755 korg20000bc Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:28:10 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/2007/08/21/strange-bedfellows/#comment-190755 Eeyore, Although you addressed your question to Scott I'd like to have a go at it. One God is not explicitly mentioned in LOTR although there is mention or implication of a greater power who is ordering events of the world for good. It is not the Valar, as the Istari Wizards are their attempt to work against evil in Middle Earth, it is something greater. Gandalf encourages Frodo about his why the Ring has come to him on page 54-55 of the Harper-Collins paperback edition. Also, Sam has an epiphany in Mordor after they leave Cirith Ungol about his and Fordo's situation. He realises that there is a grand story being played out and darkness is a small and fleeting thing when compared with the eternal beauty and light above. I know know there are many interpretations but I think the Christian reader of Tolkien says to his/herself "I know what he's writing about". Matthew Eeyore,
Although you addressed your question to Scott I’d like to have a go at it. One God is not explicitly mentioned in LOTR although there is mention or implication of a greater power who is ordering events of the world for good. It is not the Valar, as the Istari Wizards are their attempt to work against evil in Middle Earth, it is something greater. Gandalf encourages Frodo about his why the Ring has come to him on page 54-55 of the Harper-Collins paperback edition. Also, Sam has an epiphany in Mordor after they leave Cirith Ungol about his and Fordo’s situation. He realises that there is a grand story being played out and darkness is a small and fleeting thing when compared with the eternal beauty and light above.

I know know there are many interpretations but I think the Christian reader of Tolkien says to his/herself “I know what he’s writing about”.

Matthew

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