The Current Poll: Will Harry Die?

Travis I voted no because I think it would make for such a beautiful, powerful and unexpected ending, if Harry died. This doesn’t mead Voldemort will still be alive. We all know that he will bite the dust. But if Joe can pull off the emotional turmoil… I’d love to read that.

I also voted for him to die. As Michael said it would make such a unexpected ending. Plus if someone really dared to kill off their hero, it’d be Jo. And she would do it great!

Book 7 will be a far cry from Book 1, as we have seen through the development of events and characters in Books 2-6. No 6-year old should be reading (or hearing) Book 7, no more than he/she should be watching King Kong (at least Peter Jackson’s version).

To me, leaving Harry alive seems a pat ending, too ‘nice’, too idealistic. It is possible that Jo could kill off some other beloved main character, but really nothing would compare to the loss Harry has already experienced in DD’s death. So I voted ‘yes’, believing that good can come out of something as tragic as losing Harry. That’s what real life is like.

I’ve been reading HP sites and theories for a long while, but this is my first post, so I’ll try not to rehash theories that have been discussed to death (no pun intended!). I don’t think Harry will die for several reasons for which I have explained below with quotations and page numbers if available:

1) The Prophecy

Harry must vanquish Voldemort to bring the story arc to its promised end. Although JKR has left us with many questions about the exact meaning of the prophecy, the line ” [...] either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives” (OP), given that condition, the prophecy’s wording could be changed to [Voldemort] must die at the hand of [Harry] for neither can live will the other survives.

Yet, as Michael mentions above, if JKR were to kill Harry, her execution – no pun intended -of that situation could have quite an impact on the story. Therefore because the prophecy, does not exclude the possibility that Harry could die, there are other reasons for my argument.

2) JKR’s construction of death

While Voldemort is a character who clearly fears death, Harry has learned that there is a difference “between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to the death and walking into the arena with your head held high” (HBP), and as a result, does not fear it as much. And as we all know, Harry has that “saving people thing” (OP, p 32), so it would be appropriate, and I think, almost expected for Harry to try to sacrifice himself to save someone else in Deathly Hallows.

I admit Harry sacrificing himself would shock many readers, but I think in terms of story, it wouldn’t be unexpected. On a side note: Travis, as you discuss in PubCast # 20: The Snape Surprise, the events leading up to whether Harry will live or die will most definitely surprise her readers even if the question falls within two outcomes.

Additionally, it seems that it would be more dramatic to reverse the idea of the hero’s sacrifice for Harry to have to come to terms with someone dying to save him, so he can vanquish Voldemort.

3) Biblical theme of sacrifice

I admit that this argument is weaker because it is based on symbolic interpretation, but I feel it is still valid:

It is generally agreed that Lily’s sacrifice to save Harry from the Avada Kadavra curse mirrors Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. When Jesus, blameless of sin, dies on the cross, his death is the wage for anyone who believes on him, so that a person does not have to spiritually die. Given that since Lily’s sacrifice is likened to Jesus, Harry should not have to pay the price of death. Even when Harry comes of age and the physical protections of Dumbledore’s charm end, he still has Lily’s blood ruining through his veins (and Lily’s eyes for that matter, but that’s another post altogether).

Lastly, thanks Travis for your very thoughtful PubCasts and essays; it’s a real pleasure to engage in this type of Harry Potter discussions.

Melissa, I think you are right to talk about JKRs “construction of death”. It has been built up as a central issue in these books.

Her villain is named “Flight From Death”. Dumbledore makes repeated statements about death as “the next great adventure”. Her hero is captivated by the Veil in OOTP, and a few minutes later gains a temporary victory over Voldemort by being willing to die and “see Sirius again.” The deaths of James, Lily, Cedric, Sirius and Albus have been central to the development of Harry’s character. And the author has said directly that her Christian beliefs inform the climax of the series.

All that to me says that she’s probably setting up a heroic sacrifice by Harry to save the wizarding world from Voldemort.

Despite the death that’s been so prevalent in the last few books, and the deeply Christian themes/symbolism, I just think killing Harry off in a showdown with Voldemort is a bit too melodramatic and “tragic”. Whatever Rowling has done before that is shocking and sad, the books are still brimming with idealism and optimism. We can’t even let Dumbledore’s death be the last word in HBP. Our last thoughts are focused on Bill and Fleur’s wedding.

As Travis and others have pointed out, Rowling’s true genius isn’t the surprise outcome, but the surprise path to get there. Obviously, somebody other than Voldemort is going to buy it, but I wouldn’t place a bet on Harry. However, if my last name were Hagrid, Weasley (except Ron), Lupin, Snape, or Longbottom, I’d be investing in some magical body armor.

Snape, for sure. It was in his contract when he signed up at Hogwarts: he gets to abuse the kids for 15 years, and then has to sacrifice himself for the greater good. He has no dependents, no one loves him or would miss him, and JKR gets to write a moving death scene in which he tells Harry how much he loved his mum. “It is a far, far better thing that I do than I have ever done before. It is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known before.” We will all cry, I promise you.

But not Lupin. Only decent DADA teacher Hogwarts had. Has to go back and pull the place back together. Has to become the first werewolf Headmaster. Will his portrait change into a wolf when the moon is full after he dies?

I disagree that Ron won’t buy it: the sacrifice he made while playing wizard’s chess with huge chess pieces in PS was a foreshadowing of what he’ll have to do in DH.

I also disagree about Neville: he will live and become the next Herbology Master. Which suggests that Sprout will buy it. I think that Flitwick will kill Sprout (has to do with the identity of the unsuspected mole at Hogwarts).

So my money for the deathly sweepstakes is on Snape (for sure), Ron (almost sure) and Sprout (maybe).

Yes, I think Snape is probably going to die a hero’s death. The real question for me is: who got the reprive? That character has to almost be a main character, but not so central to Rowling’s plans that she has had her heart set on killing him/her since the beginning. I think that either Tonks or Lupin got the reprive. Just a hunch. I’m really worried about Bill and Fleur, though.

Mia, I agree with your last entry about the message that Rowling might send if she were to write Harry’s death in the final book… it is interesting how most people’s posts discuss this idea in one way or another.

The “victory of love over death” as you say, is central to Christian theology. I admit comparing Lily’s sacrifice to Christ is big, but the continual references to her blood shed (out of love) as Harry’s protection and something more powerful and is able to stop Voldemort from causing Harry’s death was the reasoning behind that comment. I agree that Lily had no idea what her sacrifice might mean and that symbolism isn’t the sturdiest groud to lay your argument on, but it’s valid interpretation nonetheless.

Additionally, I think it is interesting that Jo gives us Merope, an example of a mother who also dies not out of love, but out of grief, depression, and possibly selfishness, which starts Tom Riddle’s story. This is both a connection and inversion of Tom and Harry’s “birth-stories”. I wonder if it might any implications on Voldemort’s story at the end, no?

And and one more point about sacrificial mothers: I don’t know if it is in OoTP or HBP, but I distinctly remember Harry wondering if Voldemort had attacked Neville’s parents, if his mother would do the same thing. I don’t know if the answer would be yes… without venturing too far into the what-ifs, Dumbledore does say that Riddle choose the boy most dangerous to him, and I wonder if that has something to do with Lily. Jo does drop hints that we will find out something extremely important to her.

Shadowquill,

Bill and Fleur will be fine. Bill’s had his brush with death, and will settle down to a life of rare steaks and beautiful children with Fleur.

My wildest guess about who gets the reprieve is Sirius Black. No, hear me out. I know he went beyond the veil. I think he’s coming back out and that he’s going to have a showdown with Fenrir Greyback.

I’ve thought about the Padfoot / Greyback confrontation ever since I read that JKR got “goosebumps” at a couple of things she saw in the movie version of POA because they were so prescient. I think one of those things was the confrontation between Padfoot and Moony (as werewolf). It will happen again, but this time with Greyback.

Unless of course, it’s a confrontation between Moony and Greyback. Good werewolf vs. bad werewolf. Which would be very satisfying, as Greyback would have gotten my vote over Umbridge in the most-hated character had he been posted. And Lupin will get the reprieve.

Something about the Marauders, and Lily Evans and Severus Snape. They were all doomed characters. A lost generation.

I think Hagrid got the reprieve. I have to agree with John Granger on this one. The red alchemal phase will play it’s role in this book, but JK will save Hargrid from this death. I think that a lot of people will have die after book seven… and I think Hargrid will be the few left to help Harry onto the next phase of his life, IF he survives. It will show how the books have done a full 360. Harry’s wizarding experience will start with Hagrid and ours will end with an image of the two, together, after seven books, of SO much that has happened.

I love Fenir’s presence in the book.I loath his so very much but loved that ‘Werewolf in London’ vibe be brought to book six.

The comparisons with Frodo have to stop. Yes there are similarities. They share a mission: to save the world from a megalomaniacal magical entity. They’re both mentored by old wizards. They’re helped by friends. A lot of the externals are the same. But none of the internals.

Harry is a fighter. Frodo is a suffering victim. Harry is a wizard. He can do spells and charms and the odd curse. He has power. Frodo can’t do magic to save his life. He has no power, except to resist the power of the ring. Harry has adventures, solves mysteries, battles monsters, rescues his friends, plays sports. He does stuff. Frodo barely manages to drag his sorry hobbit a– from the Shire to Mt. Doom. Harry has fun, gets angry, falls in love, learns to hate, watches his protectors fall one by one and learns to stand on his own two feet. Frodo’s range of emotion goes from sad to hopeless back to sad again.

Their story arcs are different too. Frodo goes from innocent happy hobbit to sad and lonely wounded hobbit. Harry discovers a hidden world of power and potential and goes from unloved orphan to being the boy who did not die, the one who was chosen by Voldemort himself to destroy him. Harry is growing into his ultimate potential. Frodo is shrinking down to a ring wraith.

If Harry goes beyond the veil, it won’t be sadly and without hope. It will be with the same courage and sense of adventure that took him through the first six books. If he comes back, he will come back with a whoop, not a whimper.

Googled mythological hero’s journey. Found Joseph Campbell’s “The Hero with a Thousand Faces”:

“ A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man”

Easily fits the idea that Harry will have to cross the veil to get vital information which he will use to defeat Voldemort.

Don’t quite see how it fits Frodo, who comes back empty handed (and missing a finger to boot). No decisive victories for Frodo. But maybe there’s another mythological archetype for him: the Fisher King.

Anyways, the most interesting tidbit I picked up from Campbell was this, one of the steps in the middle stage of Initiation:

“Atonement with the Father
The hero reconciles the tyrant and merciful aspects of the father-like authority figure to understand himself as well as this figure”

That would be Snape and Dumbledore, don’t you think? So the sadistic Potions Master does have an important role in Harry’s journey to Mastering the Two Worlds: to help him understand himself as well as his mentors.

Cool stuff.

Although Frodo is certainly wiser after his “anti-quest”, I see him as having diminished, rather than as having grown, which is why I resist the label. But I’m quibbling. He is a hero, a huge one, despite requiring some last-minute help from Gollum to accomplish his quest.

My objection comes from my perception that it diminishes Harry’s journey into the great unknown to compare it to Frodo’s near-deaths or his journey into the world beyond the Shire. And if what makes the two comparable is the common quest element, then why limit the comparison to Frodo?

As you can see, I’m a little sensitive to statements which imply thay JKR is derivative.

Perhaps we’re spinning off topic here, but I would have said that Aragorn is a better fit for Campbell’s template in LOTR, although you have to read the appendices to get his full story.

I think that was one of Tolkien’s points. Sauron fully expected to be challenged by a great hero wielding the Ring – Aragorn, or Boromir, or somesuch. But his doom instead came at the hand of a powerless hobbit, who succeeded through perseverance and mercy rather than power.

But, Reyhan, Frodo is very much depicted as growing through his quest. He gains a measure of the wisdom of the Elves – as Saruman acknowledges just before his death – and ultimately comes to share the Elves’ fate. But he does not gain worldly authority as a result of his quest – instead Aragorn (and Sam) gain that thanks to Frodo’s sacrifies.

I think Harry is a much more direct fit to the Hero’s Journey than Frodo. If their stories are going to parallel at all, it will be because Harry similarly must sacrifice himself so that his friends can inherit a redeemed Wizarding World.`

Reyhan,
I really disagree with you about your reading of Frodo and Tolkien in general from other posts of yours.

Frodo grows so much through his journey mostly in wisdom, perception and insight. Though his fight is better classfied as that of the Elves. Galadriel called it “The long defeat”.

Though I agree that their story arcs are not that similar.

Harry and Aragorn are much better matches in so many ways.

Matthew

Frodo lovers, I apologize if I slighted your hero or his quest. Obviously he grows in perception and understanding and knowledge through his journey. When I say that he “diminishes”, I mean that he loses his love of life, and his will to live. It’s actually a tragedy, and I have shed tears over his speech to Sam about why he has to leave Middle-Earth.

Not sure that Aragorn is that good a match for Harry. More in the back story, I guess, when he was growing up as Estel and one day someone (Elrond? his mother?) takes him to see the broken sword and says “Kid, one day all this will be yours.” By the time we meet him formally, he’s further along his story arc than Harry.

According to Campbell, the hero’s journey consists of 5 stages:

1) a call to adventure, which the hero has to accept or decline

2)a road of trials, regarding which the hero succeeds or fails

3) achieving the goal or “boon,” which often results in important self-knowledge

4)a return to the ordinary world, again as to which the hero can succeed or fail

5) application of the boon in which what the hero has gained can be used to improve the world.

We can look at Harry’s journey in two ways. There is first an overall journey, in which book 1 can be regarded as the first stage, books 2-6 and part of book 7 comprise the second and third stages, and the end of book 7 will correspond to the fourth and fifth stages. A journey which is streteched out in the middle and compressed at the end, if you will.

But each of the books, except book 6, contains its own “mini-journey”. Harry is presented with a challenge, goes through trials, achieves a goal and returns to the ordinary world – to the extent that the day-to-day wizarding world can be considered “ordinary”. Travis has written about this, in The Meaning of the Phoenix, when he talks about the death and resurrection cycle of each book. I won’t make his points again and refer you to his post, but the main idea is that in each book Harry dies a figurative death (hence the rider in this current poll) before he re-emerges with some crucial knowledge or accomplishment.

Book 6 is the exception, of course, because it is actually the first part of a two-volume story which continues in Book 7. But even Book 6 features a mini-journey. Harry and Dumbledore go to the cave, meet some Inferni, and come back with something. It proves to be a dud, and Dumbledore dies in the process, but Harry does gain one crucial bit of knowledge: RAB was there before them.

So the pattern is six mini-journeys, all parts of the greater journey.

There is one stage in the road of trials (stage 3 of the

What is the “boon” Harry brings back from each of his mini-journeys “into a region of supernatural wonder”? Well, there are many answers, but the main boon from each journey is increased knowledge and insight as well as power and confidence which will ultimately help him defeat Voldemort.

In Book 7, he will (probably) make his final journey into a place of “supernatural wonder”. I am fairly certain this will involve a journey literally into death this time – by going through the veil. And a figurative resurrection. What he brings back from that journey is bound to be crucial knowledge, which he needs to defeat Voldemort.

I could be wrong; the veil in the Chamber of Death could be a teaser which JKR never follows up on. I was at one point convinced that the title of Book 7 – Deathly Hallows – meant that Harry would encounter the four founders of Hogwarts (founders – patron saints – saints – - spirits – hallows). I was recently struck by the fact that Lily and James Potter were murdered on All Hallows’ Eve, so now I’m wondering whether that is what the title refers to, and whether we will somehow be taken back (through someone’s memories) to that crucial point in time.

There are other, more practical possibilities for what the “boon” will be for his last journey. He’s hunting for Horcruxes. Two of the three cover art we’ve seen for the last book feature a locket, Slytherin’s locket, I would guess. That could be the “boon” Harry brings back, or discovers as a result of his journey into the supernatural place.

So there is the greater journey, and the smaller journeys. And many of the points in the smaller journeys foreshadow the bigger turning points to come. One of the stages in the overall process is called apotheosis. According to Campbell, this is when:

“The hero’s ego is disintegrated in a breakthrough expansion of consciousness. Quite frequently the hero’s idea of reality is changed; the hero may find an ability to do new things or to see a larger point of view, allowing the hero to sacrifice himself.”

I think that we have had two moments of apotheosis: the wand “duel” in GoF when the barrier to the spirit world is breached; and the possession scene in OotP when Harry frees himself from Voldemort by thinking that if he were to die, he would see his beloved godfather again.

The final one will be awesome.

I think that to ignore Tolkien as an influence on Rowling is a mistake. He is clearly the biggest (meaning most read/copied/recognized) literary figure in her genre.

But no matter, I was just explaining why Harry’s gonna be pushing up diasies.

And he won’t be the only one taking a long dirt nap, I assure you, LOL!

Mia said: Will Harry literally go beyond the veil? The archway is an intriguing image, like you’ve stated, as well as the closed door. Will we learn what’s behind them?

I’ve been reluctant to embrace this particular idea just because JKR has been so doggedly materialistic to this point. I mean, a “soul” in the PotterVerse is seemingly a physical object that can be pulled from your body, torn, eaten or stuck in external objects. It’s rather like a piece of cheese!

So I’ve always been a bit skeptical about the idea of taking a trip beyond the veil, or the kind of “spirit quest” that seems to imply. It’s hard to imagine any depiction of the afterlife that doesn’t take us into metaphysical or religious territory, and Jo has so far steered clear of those things.

On the other hand, it seems quite likely that we’ll be visiting the Dept of Mysteries again. And the US cover art does seem to suggest an other-worldly setting. And it would certainly fulfill the requirement of changing Harry’s perception of reality in a place of “supernatural wonder” that you and Reyahn mention. So it’s definitely possible.

But I think that, for example, the trip to the Little Hangleton graveyard in GOF covers this sort of thing as well. Harry is ripped from his familiar world at school, finds himself alone in a dread and deadly place, is an unwilling participant in Voldemort’s “supernatural” resurrection, must face Voldemort unaided, finds an unexpected source of power via the priori incantem effect, and eventually escapes with the invaluable knowledge that Voldemort has returned.

I think she could probably fulfill the requirements of the Hero’s Journey with a similar scene where Harry learns new truths and demonstrates new abilities, set in a physical, albeit unusual, location.

Mia,
You quoted Rowling as saying she read LOTR once and didn’t read it again and concluded that Tolkien didn’t influence her much.

I don’t know that that holds.

Tolkien’s writing is so much more than LOTR and I suspect The Hobbit to have left a stronger impression.

I’m not determined to find influences in Rowling’s writing but there are certainly similarities and nods in Tolkien’s direction.

Matthew

It would be mighty hard to be a modern fantasy writer and not be influenced by Tolkien at all. But his influence on JKR seems to be minimal.

I think there are some similarities in tone between The Hobbit and the early Harry Potter books. Hobbit!Gandalf bears a lot more resemblance to PS!Dumbledore, for example, than do the later incarnations of either wizard.

There are also, maybe, some parallels between Ron and Sam – but other than the PS chess match, Ron hasn’t really had his moment yet where his loyalty to Harry is critical to Harry’s success.

But in general, I don’t think that there’s a lot of HP insight to be gained from LOTR. Voldemort is a much more personal (and even petty) villain than Sauron. Harry and Frodo don’t have a whole lot in common in background or character or quest. And there’s most definitely no wizarding Aragorn waiting in the wings to become a noble and just ruler once the bad guy is defeated.

Interesting questions, Mrs. L.

I think that Sirius couldn’t come back from beyond the veil because there is no known way back. I believe that Harry will go – without expectation of being able to come back – and will come back because he will find a guide. My candidate for the guide is Fawkes, who seems to be half bird and half spirit, functions as Dumbledore’s spirit familiar, and has already guided Harry back from a “figurative” underworld, in CoS. I think Fawkes would lead Harry back as a last gift from Dumbledore.

I don’t think the wizarding world needs a leader in ordinary times. It’s only in times of peril that they need someone to rally behind. That person has been Dumbledore for the current conflict. It’s about to be Harry, I think. But once Voldemort is taken care of, there will be another period of peace, until evil is reborn, and a new leader will emerge to lead the forces of good. That is the pattern.

They will, however, need a Minister of Magic, as well as a Headmaster. I think Arthur Weasley (if he survives the war) might become Minister. My vote for Headmaster I’ve already given: to Remus Lupin. If he too survives the war. The pureblood families might object to a werewolf becoming Headmaster. But I suspect that most of them will be too busy trying to remove their Death Eater tattoos to worry too much about the wizarding heirarchy for a few years, anyways.

For all it’s fantasy, Rowling’s world is tempered by a sense of realism that you don’t get in Tolkien. The Wizarding World is still quite familiar to us: an economy, a government, a social caste system, school, etc. Tolkien’s worlds are far more symbolic and figurative, even alleghorical, at times.

Rowling’s influences stem much more from Gothic and Victorian writers, especially in the last two or three books. Rowling hasn’t yet violated the life/death distinction she made in her response to Rushdie’s question, and I can’t help but see doing so in book 7 as something of a cheap parlor trick that would make her uneasy as a storyteller. A literal death/resurection just semes anathema to the books. They do encompass the resurection themes, but only figuratively. It’s hard to feel empathy for Harry’s emotional and psychological journeys, for all his soul searching over the last few books, if he can figure a way to wander over to the other side for a chat with the loved ones he so deeply misses.

Part of me agrees that it’s important not to cheapen death by making it like a country you can visit, and then return from. And to present the dead like the inhabitants of that distant country. Not immediately available, but not completely out of reach. Not very final, is it? You wouldn’t yell and kick furniture and get a hate on against destiny if it were that simple, would you?

And I like the idea that JKR will show integrity and not breach the barrier. That no one who’s gone to the other side will come back and that Harry will not chat with the loved ones that he’s lost.

On the other hand, it’s already a bit too late for that, don’t you think?

I mean, he sees his parents in the mirror of Erised. He hears his mother in his Voldemort evoked memories. His parents emerge from Voldemort’s wand in the Priori Incantatem and talk to him. Dumebledore puts a good face on it, says no spell can reawaken the dead, they were just echoes, and Harry lets it go, unchallenged. But they give him instructions and encouragement, don’t they? They are not echoes of the past, they are interacting with what’s happening here and now.

And Harry and Luna and some others all hear the voices from the other side of the veil when they’re in the Chamber of Death, don’t they?

To me, at this point, it’s a technicality to insist that the dead can not reawaken. Say they can’t, if you wish, but if it looks like a duck and talks like a duck -

BTW, I don’t think that the journey through the veil which I expect will happen in Deathly Hallows will be a walk through the park. I wouldn’t expect any cozy chats. If it happens at all, I would expect a lot of danger. Any moments spent with loved ones will be perilous, and task oriented: the task being to get whatever the heck Harry needs from the other side and return with his skin and sanity intact. Why else call it Deathly?

I agree that the schemes that emerged from Voldemort’s wand didn’t act like mere echoes from the past. Neither do the portraits in Dumbledore’s office, they seem to have a life of their own and interact with the living in the here and now. But it’s not exactly like bringing back the dead, it’s more like an imprint of the personality they once had. I think that there may be a line that Rowling ultimately will not cross and that we will not be able to see what really is on the other side of the veil.

Part of what makes the image of the archway so intriguing is that fact that we don’t know it’s secret. If Harry literally passed through the veil, there might be the danger of trivializing death, it wouldn’t remain a mystery any longer. Dumbledore may still be able to interact with Harry through the portrait, but he won’t pull a Gandalf, like Rowling said, and neither will Harry, I suppose.

The veil seems to represent the final barrier between life and death and it can be passed only one way. Once you’re through it, there’s no coming back. It might be transparent in that one can hear the voices behind it and in that the dead can still have an impact on the living. But still, it remains closed. So if Harry dies in book 7 I’m inclined to believe that it will be a figurative death, not a literal one.

Once he’s passed through the veil, he won’t return, I suppose, and I don’t see what the positive resolution of the books will possibly be if that happens.

Mia, I kind of like your idea that the veil, the final barrier between life and death, will remain impenetrable, and the corollary that the dead will help Harry by communicating with him, but without him crossing over.

I like the idea because it’s conceptually (and spiritually) neat to have a few absolutes. The only thing that keeps me thinking he will go through is the fact that Sirius’ death was wrong. Wrong in the sense that you get blasted and you die and then you go through the veil. You don’t die by getting knocked through the gateway by your maniacal but hot cousin Narcissa.

If Harry doesn’t go through the veil, another corollary is that Harry will have to die another figurative death in order to get what he needs to vanquish Voldemort.

So my vote is first for going through the veil (if JKR decided this could be done in a respectful sort of way), and then for a figurative death. Not for a literal one, because it would be cruel to the children who’ve grown up with Harry.

I think Harry will not die. But I’m not sure about that (just 70%). If JKR believes that Harry’s death is necessary for us to understand what she is trying to tell us about life, death and love, then he will die. But in either case I am absolutely confident (100%) that the end of book 7 will not depress us (except for the fact that it is the last book) because of how she will write (or has written) it.

Harry sometimes feels kind of attracted by death, because he longs for being reunited with his parents, with Sirius, and probably also with Dumbledore now. Thus, it would not be the most challenging task for a true Gryffindor hero like him to sacrifice his life for the sake of others.

Harry will, of course, have to encounter death and the dead, much closer than he already has, I think. Like Mia, I don’t believe he will go through the veil and then come back. But there may be other means to get in contact with that other world. Couldn’t that be the purpose of the Draught of Living Death, that many of us expect to play a role in book 7, instead of serving for faking somebody’s death?

Given the title “Deathly Hallows”, I expect something very important to happen on Halloween, something related to death and/or decedents. In the first 4 books, this day has always been a significant one: The death of Harry’s parents, Harry’s survival and Voldemort’s fall, the Troll event and the beginning of the trio’s friendship, the opening of the Chamber of Secrets on Nick’s deathday, Sirius’ intrusion into Hogwarts, the Goblet of Fire spitting out Harry’s name. But in books 5 and 6 Halloween wasn’t even mentioned – as if we were supposed to forget about it.

Anyway, I think we will learn something about life energy, about death as the “next great adventure”, and about Voldemort losing the immortality he already had from the very beginning – not in spite of his successful experiments, but just because of them. It’s all about the soul, not the body.

Here are two more quotes on the subject of Sirius Black’s death, and one quote on the subject of moral lessons:

“Cookie246122: ‘Why did you kill Sirius? It made me very sad ‘

JK Rowling replies -> ‘I’m really, really sorry. I didn’t want to do it, but there was a reason. If you think you can forgive me, keep reading, you’ll find out. [I feel really guilty now].’”

and:

” SiriuslyLovinSirius: ‘If we ever see Sirius again, what form will he be in?’

JK Rowling replies -> ‘I couldn’t possibly answer that for fear of incriminating myself.’”

and

“Majeed from Bristol Grammar School – Bristol: ‘To what extent did you conceive Harry Potter as a moral tale?’
****SCHOOLS COMPETITION WINNER****
JK Rowling replies -> ‘I did not conceive it as a moral tale, the morality sprang naturally out of the story, a subtle but important difference. I think any book that sets out to teach or preach is likely to be hard going at times (though I can think of a couple of exceptions).’”

Taken together, the quotes lead me to believe that Sirius’ death was purposeful, and the purpose was not to show that death can be sudden and arbitrary. I think that Sirius died the way he did (fell through the veil) for a reason.

If Harry does cross the veil, I’m suggesting that he will need a guide to bring him back. Fawkes seems ideal for the role. The other candidate would be Sirius Black. That might be the reason why he had to “die”.

So what’s the reason?

Mia, I don’t know why you’d think that we can forget about Godric Gryffindor. There is both evidence and room for reasonable speculation that he will have some role to play in DH.

First, there’s the famous quote from a 2000 interview:

“‘The significance of the place where Harry and his parents lived – the first name…’

JKR: ‘Godric Gryffindor. Very good, you’re a bit good you are aren’t you. I’m impressed.’

‘You’re not going to tell me but ….’

JKR: ‘My editor didn’t, I said to her – Haven’t you noticed the connection between where Harry’s parents lived and one of the Hogwarts houses? And she said no, no – I’m not being rude about Emma, she’s a brilliant editor, the best ever. But no she didn’t pick that up either, you’re a bit good you are.’

What I find really interesting about this is the date. This would be before the last two (three?) books had been written, but JKR knows there is an important connection. So it’s got to be integral to the plot.

What can the significance be? A Gryffindor artefact which Voldemort found and Horcruxed and left behind? Not very likely but not impossible. That there was another influence at work on All Hallows’ eve in 1981, possibly the influence of Godric Gryffindor? Maybe.

The other reason why I think GG (and the other House founders) will play an important role in in DH is because I think they are the Hallows referred to in the title.

However, there could be room for all three plot threads (GG, Sirius Black and the Horcrux hunt) if they all came together, as they easily might.

Now for the idea of GG as a giant squid animagus. This is a joke, right? Maybe. Rememeber the scene in the PoA movie which gave JKR chills? I thought it was the one where Padfoot is fighting Moony. But someone else (Travis?) said it was the scene where Buckbeak is attacking Moony. So something like that is going to happen again. I’m pretty sure that the attackee is going to be Fenrir Greyback who needs to be stopped. But the attacker? Buckbeak again? And what is Buckbeak? A hippogriff. Hippogriff = Gryffindor.

Not saying Buckbeak is GG in animagus form. But there is some connection there.

I don’t think we need to take Jo’s quote about there being a reason for Sirius’ death as ironclad evidence that Harry will take a trip the veil.

Some other possibilities:

- Sirius knew something important (about Regulus? about Kreachur? about Lily?) that JKR did not want Harry to learn until the end.

- It was important for Harry to inherit 12 Grimmauld Place, the Black Family treasury, or Kreachur.

- JKR was simple alluding to the “rule” she’s mentioned on other occasions – that the Hero must go on alone in this type of story.

- Sirius’ death will motivate Harry to do the right thing, maybe in the same vein that it allowed Harry to escape possession by Voldemort at the end of OOTP.

All that said, I do agree that if JKR goes for a “metaphysical” ending like that, Sirius would be a very plausible character to play the role of Spirit Guide.

I wanted to clarify what I meant in my post above about how I think that Harry will seem to die but not really die in Book 7.

Here’s a possible scenario: Harry pushes Voldemort off the Astronomy tower, and falls with him, assuming he’s falling to his death. He even reaches the ground and falls into unconsciousness, only to wake up in the hospital wing. Or Harry jumps in front of an AK meant for someone else (Ginny?) and a spell hits him and he falls unconscious, assuming he’s dead. But it turns out that someone else (maybe even Ginny, or Hermione) sends out a shielding spell at the exact moment that somehow deflects or shields Harry from the AK, but also another bad guy sends out a stunning spell at the same time that does hit Harry, so he’s in fact been stunned but not killed.

These are two very lame examples. I’m sure Jo will come up with something better. A scenario like the end of Book 1 would be most like what I’m thinking about. Or even the scene in PoA when Harry falls off his broomstick when the Dementors are at the Quidditch game.

I think, going along with the literary analysis, having Harry go through the veil and come back makes sense. But I just can’t see how she’d do it and have it make logical sense given the rules she’s set up. I don’t see having Fawkes bring her back as a viable option, really. It sounds too much like pulling a rabbit out of her sleeve. Maybe if he went through holding onto some sort of lifeline, but then he wouldn’t be going in sure that it meant certain death for himself.

Less than 60 days now to wait for the answer! (well, more than that for me, if it takes me a week to read it, like it has the others, it’ll be more than 60 days before I get to the end . . .)

Hi Reyhan,
As has been pointed out before, Snape’s instinctive response in the werewolf sequence of the PoA movie is an invention of the film-makers and doesn’t happen in the book.

By contrast, Snape’s behavior throughout that part of the book is self-serving, mean, unjust and small-minded. His focus is on bringing Sirius and Lupin undone at any cost (and without reference to justice or due process) and on securing honors (order of Merlin) for himself. His behavior is anything but admirable.

Exactly why the film-makers sought to recast him as the hero in that scene is anybody’s guess, but I really don’t think it tells us much about Rowling’s story or her intentions.

Mia, there is not a single reference to Crookshanks “purring on the bed in the text of PoA at *any* point from when Snape appears in the Shrieking Shack to when he is knocked unconscious. For all we know, since Crookshanks is not mentioned once in that scene, his hackles may have been up throughout (presumably there was too much else going on for anyone to notice).

Meanwhile, I don’t think you can’t have it both ways. If you want to argue that Crookshanks’ half-kneazle heritage gives him special insight into people’s motives it appears you would have to argue that Crookshanks sensed that Harry was “unsavory and suspicious”.

‘fraid I don’t buy that.

You misunderstand me, Mia. I’m well aware of the description of kneazles in FBaWTFT – and the fact that Rowling has stated that Crookshanks is part-kneazle.

My objection is that:

a) I do not think that Crookshanks’ behavior towards Harry depended on any special kneazle ability – Crookshanks was merely defending a friend

b) I do not think that Crookshanks’ apparent failure to attack Snape demonstrates that Snape is a righteous goodie, and

c) I do not think that the reference to Crookshanks purring on the bed two pages after Snape was knocked unconscous, shows that he was purring while Snape was shouting at people (including Hermione, Crookshanks’ owner), shooting sparks at Sirius and tying Lupin up with ropes.

Frankly, if Crookshanks was purring while Snape was shouting such things as “KEEP QUIET, YOU STUPID GIRL” at Hermione, then half-kneazle or not, the cat’s instincts are worse than useless IMO.