Comments on: The Finality of Death http://thehogshead.org/the-finality-of-death-77/ Harry Potter News and Commentary Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:12:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: bfeece http://thehogshead.org/the-finality-of-death-77/comment-page-1/#comment-123123 bfeece Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:11:37 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/?p=77#comment-123123 can someone fill me in on what alchemy and the whole red stage white stage thing means? thanks, Brock can someone fill me in on what alchemy and the whole red stage white stage thing means?

thanks,
Brock

]]> By: meep http://thehogshead.org/the-finality-of-death-77/comment-page-1/#comment-7752 meep Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:15:33 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/?p=77#comment-7752 Just a note, isn't it interesting that we learn that there are unspoken spells in HBP, so it is entirely possible that Snape had done something like Expelliarmus or something like the Protego charm, unspoken, when pronouncing the killing curse. I'm of the "Snape isn't really evil" camp, and I think Dumbledore was going to die anyway (I think the stuff in the cave would kill him no matter what), but the Avada Kedavra curse is so evil that even Snape couldn't use it for real and actually just ejected Dumbledore from the tower. Meaning he was just cursing empty air, or not really casting the AK spell. Just a note, isn’t it interesting that we learn that there are unspoken spells in HBP, so it is entirely possible that Snape had done something like Expelliarmus or something like the Protego charm, unspoken, when pronouncing the killing curse.

I’m of the “Snape isn’t really evil” camp, and I think Dumbledore was going to die anyway (I think the stuff in the cave would kill him no matter what), but the Avada Kedavra curse is so evil that even Snape couldn’t use it for real and actually just ejected Dumbledore from the tower. Meaning he was just cursing empty air, or not really casting the AK spell.

]]> By: Travis Prinzi http://thehogshead.org/the-finality-of-death-77/comment-page-1/#comment-7751 Travis Prinzi Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:50:37 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/?p=77#comment-7751 <strong>Jake</strong>, while I still tend to think Dumbledore is dead, there is definitely a lot more to consider than I had originally realized, and the slow fall off the tower is a big part of that. Jake, while I still tend to think Dumbledore is dead, there is definitely a lot more to consider than I had originally realized, and the slow fall off the tower is a big part of that.

]]> By: Jake http://thehogshead.org/the-finality-of-death-77/comment-page-1/#comment-7702 Jake Wed, 12 Jul 2006 23:52:43 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/?p=77#comment-7702 what about the fact that dumbldore was knocked out of the window by the avada kadavra curse when all the other victims of the curse just fell to the ground without a scratch? what about the fact that dumbldore was knocked out of the window by the avada kadavra curse when all the other victims of the curse just fell to the ground without a scratch?

]]> By: Travis Prinzi http://thehogshead.org/the-finality-of-death-77/comment-page-1/#comment-728 Travis Prinzi Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:36:39 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/?p=77#comment-728 Ha! Right, right...I was grasping for a parallel and mixed it up. That's what I get for trying to answer these comments in breaks at work! Ha! Right, right…I was grasping for a parallel and mixed it up. That’s what I get for trying to answer these comments in breaks at work!

]]> By: korg20000bc http://thehogshead.org/the-finality-of-death-77/comment-page-1/#comment-727 korg20000bc Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:59:48 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/?p=77#comment-727 Hmmm, Gandalf telling Pippin about the white shores?... Oh! You mean Peter Jackson telling Pippin about the white shores. :) Matt Hmmm,
Gandalf telling Pippin about the white shores?…

Oh! You mean Peter Jackson telling Pippin about the white shores.

:)

Matt

]]> By: Travis Prinzi http://thehogshead.org/the-finality-of-death-77/comment-page-1/#comment-726 Travis Prinzi Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:20:38 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/?p=77#comment-726 <strong>Todd</strong>, I do think you're on to something here, but I think it's the lesson JKR is trying to teach - that though death is final on earth (no one comes back from the dead, even by magic), death is not the end. Dumbledore is the great teacher about death (think Gandalf teaching Pippin about the white shores), so it makes sense that his death is shrouded in resurrection symbolism. I just worked through Dumbledore's death scene again this morning. I understand the strange differences between this killing and other AK killings. But it seems to me that JKR is following a very basic pattern - the "wise old man" archetype dies, so the "hero" archetype finishes without his assistance. Todd, I do think you’re on to something here, but I think it’s the lesson JKR is trying to teach – that though death is final on earth (no one comes back from the dead, even by magic), death is not the end. Dumbledore is the great teacher about death (think Gandalf teaching Pippin about the white shores), so it makes sense that his death is shrouded in resurrection symbolism.

I just worked through Dumbledore’s death scene again this morning. I understand the strange differences between this killing and other AK killings. But it seems to me that JKR is following a very basic pattern – the “wise old man” archetype dies, so the “hero” archetype finishes without his assistance.

]]> By: korg20000bc http://thehogshead.org/the-finality-of-death-77/comment-page-1/#comment-718 korg20000bc Tue, 25 Apr 2006 03:05:53 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/?p=77#comment-718 Yeah, The jury is still our about it. There is plenty of imagery that suggests that he may come back. Think Gandalf here... And it was Dumbledore that told Draco that the Order would be able to fake his death and hide him completely. If he could do this for Draco why not himself? Also the result of Snape's Avera Kedarvra curse produced different effects than it is described in other places. It looked more like the expelliarmus jinx that Snape did on Lockhart in Chamber. If he really is dead we still may have Dumbledore in the story through his portrait in the principle's office. Matt Yeah,
The jury is still our about it. There is plenty of imagery that suggests that he may come back. Think Gandalf here… And it was Dumbledore that told Draco that the Order would be able to fake his death and hide him completely. If he could do this for Draco why not himself? Also the result of Snape’s Avera Kedarvra curse produced different effects than it is described in other places. It looked more like the expelliarmus jinx that Snape did on Lockhart in Chamber.

If he really is dead we still may have Dumbledore in the story through his portrait in the principle’s office.

Matt

]]> By: Todd http://thehogshead.org/the-finality-of-death-77/comment-page-1/#comment-715 Todd Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:29:50 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/?p=77#comment-715 While I understand the whole neccesity behind Dumbledore being dead, and as much as I believe JK about her whole "finality of death" schtick, I just don't understand in a sense, and maybe I just have to wait for book 7, but I just don't understand all the symbology associated with Dumbledore that is just tossed out the window if he is "simply dead" (for lack of a better term). The phoenix, for example. His Patronus, his pet, phoenix. Such a blantent example of life/death/rebirth that I feel stupid posting it. But then, in the numerous references of Fawkes' burning, we see parallels in the funeral scene. To connect Dumbledore's funeral to the funeral pyre of a phoenix is fishy if he is "simply dead." Also, another "blatent" reference is his half moon spectacles. They are mentioned in passing numerous times, and most people take no notice of them. But, after having read about Dumbledore's death, I realized I was seeing another reference to life/death/rebirth, specifically a moon going from life to death/death to life. Also, with the Christ symbolism that's linked in your article. While he may well be dead, I truly believe there is a lot more than meets the eye. While I understand the whole neccesity behind Dumbledore being dead, and as much as I believe JK about her whole “finality of death” schtick, I just don’t understand in a sense, and maybe I just have to wait for book 7, but I just don’t understand all the symbology associated with Dumbledore that is just tossed out the window if he is “simply dead” (for lack of a better term). The phoenix, for example. His Patronus, his pet, phoenix. Such a blantent example of life/death/rebirth that I feel stupid posting it. But then, in the numerous references of Fawkes’ burning, we see parallels in the funeral scene. To connect Dumbledore’s funeral to the funeral pyre of a phoenix is fishy if he is “simply dead.” Also, another “blatent” reference is his half moon spectacles. They are mentioned in passing numerous times, and most people take no notice of them. But, after having read about Dumbledore’s death, I realized I was seeing another reference to life/death/rebirth, specifically a moon going from life to death/death to life. Also, with the Christ symbolism that’s linked in your article. While he may well be dead, I truly believe there is a lot more than meets the eye.

]]> By: Deborah http://thehogshead.org/the-finality-of-death-77/comment-page-1/#comment-702 Deborah Sun, 23 Apr 2006 21:32:10 +0000 http://swordofgryffindor.com/?p=77#comment-702 Harry did smash his mirror after trying to talk to Sirius in it. Sirius didn't answer, so either he was unable to, or he didn't have it with him when he went through the arch. Harry did smash his mirror after trying to talk to Sirius in it. Sirius didn’t answer, so either he was unable to, or he didn’t have it with him when he went through the arch.

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