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	<title>Comments on: The Quad on the Quad</title>
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	<description>Harry Potter News and Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: carriek9</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/the-quad-on-the-quad-2870/comment-page-1/#comment-450876</link>
		<dc:creator>carriek9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehogshead.org/?p=2870#comment-450876</guid>
		<description>I love the analogy between Hogwarts a History and the Bible as authortative texts.  Both books suffer from the fact that many people own them but hardly anyone actually reads them. And as Hermione so frequently shows, we&#039;d be much better off if we did. The fact that neither book discusses evey possible topic does not, I think, detract at all from their authority as to the things actually discussed.Thanks Danielle for a great post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the analogy between Hogwarts a History and the Bible as authortative texts.  Both books suffer from the fact that many people own them but hardly anyone actually reads them. And as Hermione so frequently shows, we&#8217;d be much better off if we did. The fact that neither book discusses evey possible topic does not, I think, detract at all from their authority as to the things actually discussed.Thanks Danielle for a great post.</p>
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		<title>By: Danielle Tumminio</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/the-quad-on-the-quad-2870/comment-page-1/#comment-450764</link>
		<dc:creator>Danielle Tumminio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 03:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehogshead.org/?p=2870#comment-450764</guid>
		<description>Oh my goodness, so much to say here!  First of all, Fricka, I think you&#039;re right on about the Julian of Norwich quotation--I even wrote about it in my book!  Great minds must think alike.

Also, several of you commented on Hogwarts: A History.  It&#039;s true that, in many ways, it&#039;s the closest we get to something as authoritative as Scripture in the Bible, but my sense is that it lacks some of the gravitas that the Bible has.  What do you all think?  As for Scripture...can you believe I never considered Scripture as a source of authority in Harry&#039;s world?  It&#039;s a brilliant idea, Black Angus!  

Black Angus also made a comment about God choosing narratives as a way of self-revelation.  I was actually thinking about that today while listening to Paradise Lost via Librivox (which, by the way, is a terrific free resource by which to hear recorded books in the public domain). The story of Adam and Eve is one that always captures me because I think it encapsulates a universal human experience of &#039;falling&#039; from a state of innocence. Isn&#039;t it amazing that a story about two people eating an apple can resonate with people over many thousands of years?

Finally, 908ssp, sorry to have shocked you!  As Travis said, I&#039;m a theologian and teach a course on the Harry Potter series and Christian thought at Yale.   One of the goals of my work is to refute Christian thinkers who have deemed the books to be evil or witchcraft, and these blog posts seek to do that too. So, I hope that you&#039;ll find these posts intriguing at an intellectual level if not at a spiritual one.

Okay, I&#039;ve been blabbing and am totally exhausted now!  But keep the discussion going, and I&#039;ll be back soon.  Your thoughts are terrific!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my goodness, so much to say here!  First of all, Fricka, I think you&#8217;re right on about the Julian of Norwich quotation&#8211;I even wrote about it in my book!  Great minds must think alike.</p>
<p>Also, several of you commented on Hogwarts: A History.  It&#8217;s true that, in many ways, it&#8217;s the closest we get to something as authoritative as Scripture in the Bible, but my sense is that it lacks some of the gravitas that the Bible has.  What do you all think?  As for Scripture&#8230;can you believe I never considered Scripture as a source of authority in Harry&#8217;s world?  It&#8217;s a brilliant idea, Black Angus!  </p>
<p>Black Angus also made a comment about God choosing narratives as a way of self-revelation.  I was actually thinking about that today while listening to Paradise Lost via Librivox (which, by the way, is a terrific free resource by which to hear recorded books in the public domain). The story of Adam and Eve is one that always captures me because I think it encapsulates a universal human experience of &#8216;falling&#8217; from a state of innocence. Isn&#8217;t it amazing that a story about two people eating an apple can resonate with people over many thousands of years?</p>
<p>Finally, 908ssp, sorry to have shocked you!  As Travis said, I&#8217;m a theologian and teach a course on the Harry Potter series and Christian thought at Yale.   One of the goals of my work is to refute Christian thinkers who have deemed the books to be evil or witchcraft, and these blog posts seek to do that too. So, I hope that you&#8217;ll find these posts intriguing at an intellectual level if not at a spiritual one.</p>
<p>Okay, I&#8217;ve been blabbing and am totally exhausted now!  But keep the discussion going, and I&#8217;ll be back soon.  Your thoughts are terrific!</p>
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		<title>By: Library Lily</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/the-quad-on-the-quad-2870/comment-page-1/#comment-450677</link>
		<dc:creator>Library Lily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehogshead.org/?p=2870#comment-450677</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Danielle&lt;/b&gt;, this is a fascinating post and is making me think hard. My ideas keep getting tangled, but let me see if I can straighten them out enough to make sense.

As a point of interest: The Catholic Church categorizes revelation as either public, requiring the allegiance of faithful Catholics, or private. Experience, even big well-known experiences like Lourdes and Fatima, are considered private revelation, at best useful for assisting devotion inside the greater truth. I don&#039;t know how much of that distinction Rowling&#039;s own church retains, but I think most Protestants (if we remove the reference to Marian apparitions :P) would agree.

As for Rowling herself, I&#039;m not so sure. The sense I get from her comments is that reason and experience are stronger sources for her belief than a particular commitment to Scripture or tradition. Of course, she&#039;s also talking to an audience of almost every imaginable perspective, as well as dealing with her own struggles with agnosticism, so it&#039;s hard to say for certain.

My loosely-formed take on her approach to revelation is that here her postmodernism is pretty well-developed: Question it all. Make sure it holds up to analysis. Make sure you&#039;re interpreting it correctly (Riddle&#039;s diary, Rita&#039;s book, Beedle&#039;s tales, Dumbledore&#039;s words and actions, teachers&#039; statements, experiences, etc.)

Also, perhaps part of her excellent portrayal of the gray and confusing search for truth is in showing the fallibility of reason itself. Reason is easily colored by imperfect information, by emotion, and by experience. Harry&#039;s reason pushes him to pursue the Hallows; Hermione&#039;s convinces her that the Hallows cannot exist. (We won&#039;t talk about Ron&#039;s. :))

In Dobby&#039;s grave, Harry uses a reason that is greater than mere mental cogitation, allowing Voldemort to take the Elder Wand and choosing through love to trust Dumbledore. It&#039;s not quite a blind choice, but it&#039;s not cool logic; rather, it&#039;s the combined greatness of reason informed by faith and love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Danielle</b>, this is a fascinating post and is making me think hard. My ideas keep getting tangled, but let me see if I can straighten them out enough to make sense.</p>
<p>As a point of interest: The Catholic Church categorizes revelation as either public, requiring the allegiance of faithful Catholics, or private. Experience, even big well-known experiences like Lourdes and Fatima, are considered private revelation, at best useful for assisting devotion inside the greater truth. I don&#8217;t know how much of that distinction Rowling&#8217;s own church retains, but I think most Protestants (if we remove the reference to Marian apparitions <img src='http://thehogshead.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> ) would agree.</p>
<p>As for Rowling herself, I&#8217;m not so sure. The sense I get from her comments is that reason and experience are stronger sources for her belief than a particular commitment to Scripture or tradition. Of course, she&#8217;s also talking to an audience of almost every imaginable perspective, as well as dealing with her own struggles with agnosticism, so it&#8217;s hard to say for certain.</p>
<p>My loosely-formed take on her approach to revelation is that here her postmodernism is pretty well-developed: Question it all. Make sure it holds up to analysis. Make sure you&#8217;re interpreting it correctly (Riddle&#8217;s diary, Rita&#8217;s book, Beedle&#8217;s tales, Dumbledore&#8217;s words and actions, teachers&#8217; statements, experiences, etc.)</p>
<p>Also, perhaps part of her excellent portrayal of the gray and confusing search for truth is in showing the fallibility of reason itself. Reason is easily colored by imperfect information, by emotion, and by experience. Harry&#8217;s reason pushes him to pursue the Hallows; Hermione&#8217;s convinces her that the Hallows cannot exist. (We won&#8217;t talk about Ron&#8217;s. <img src='http://thehogshead.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>In Dobby&#8217;s grave, Harry uses a reason that is greater than mere mental cogitation, allowing Voldemort to take the Elder Wand and choosing through love to trust Dumbledore. It&#8217;s not quite a blind choice, but it&#8217;s not cool logic; rather, it&#8217;s the combined greatness of reason informed by faith and love.</p>
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		<title>By: revgeorge</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/the-quad-on-the-quad-2870/comment-page-1/#comment-450671</link>
		<dc:creator>revgeorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehogshead.org/?p=2870#comment-450671</guid>
		<description>If the Biblical quotations don&#039;t have the exact same meaning inside the text as of outside of it, then they&#039;re still pretty close to one another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Biblical quotations don&#8217;t have the exact same meaning inside the text as of outside of it, then they&#8217;re still pretty close to one another.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Prinzi</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/the-quad-on-the-quad-2870/comment-page-1/#comment-450665</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Prinzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehogshead.org/?p=2870#comment-450665</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Shimon&lt;/strong&gt;, if we were talking about high fantasy, then I think you&#039;d be right to suggest they&#039;re aphorisms from Dumbledore&#039;s own reflections. But given that the secondary and primary worlds interact, and everything that belongs to the primary world can collide with the secondary world, I think it&#039;s safe to assume the Bible&#039;s existence in the Harry Potter stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Shimon</strong>, if we were talking about high fantasy, then I think you&#8217;d be right to suggest they&#8217;re aphorisms from Dumbledore&#8217;s own reflections. But given that the secondary and primary worlds interact, and everything that belongs to the primary world can collide with the secondary world, I think it&#8217;s safe to assume the Bible&#8217;s existence in the Harry Potter stories.</p>
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		<title>By: Shimon</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/the-quad-on-the-quad-2870/comment-page-1/#comment-450663</link>
		<dc:creator>Shimon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehogshead.org/?p=2870#comment-450663</guid>
		<description>Within the context of the books the  epitaphs Dumbledore put on the gravestones could just be words of wisdom coming from his own mind. Of course we know where Jo took them from and what they are hinting at but it doesn&#039;t mean that inside the story they have the same exact meaning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Within the context of the books the  epitaphs Dumbledore put on the gravestones could just be words of wisdom coming from his own mind. Of course we know where Jo took them from and what they are hinting at but it doesn&#8217;t mean that inside the story they have the same exact meaning.</p>
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		<title>By: Gwen Limbach</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/the-quad-on-the-quad-2870/comment-page-1/#comment-450558</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwen Limbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehogshead.org/?p=2870#comment-450558</guid>
		<description>Danielle, when you brought up experience as a revelation and Harry&#039;s time in King Cross, it got me thinking more about his relationship with DD (which you touched on very well).

Love may serve as God in the series, but DD in some ways serves as a god-like (dare I say Christ-like? or God-the-father-like?) figure as well. Harry&#039;s experience with DD in King&#039;s Cross is a revelation of the trust and love the former has for the latter (and of course vice versa), basically of the relationship itself. Harry&#039;s belief and faith in DD is finally restored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danielle, when you brought up experience as a revelation and Harry&#8217;s time in King Cross, it got me thinking more about his relationship with DD (which you touched on very well).</p>
<p>Love may serve as God in the series, but DD in some ways serves as a god-like (dare I say Christ-like? or God-the-father-like?) figure as well. Harry&#8217;s experience with DD in King&#8217;s Cross is a revelation of the trust and love the former has for the latter (and of course vice versa), basically of the relationship itself. Harry&#8217;s belief and faith in DD is finally restored.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/the-quad-on-the-quad-2870/comment-page-1/#comment-450532</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehogshead.org/?p=2870#comment-450532</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Black Angus&lt;/b&gt;, I think you hit on an important point regarding the use of story in scripture. N.T. Wright seems to drive this point many times in his books of the need to look at scripture as that grand narrative that came to a climax in Jesus of Nazareth. Furthermore the narrative is still going on as we&#039;re obligated to bring New Creation into the present, and I think Rowling and her predecessors have touched on this by using story to convey that &quot;great story&quot; that is continuing.

&lt;b&gt;revgeorge&lt;/b&gt;, you also touched on a crucial point about the experience of St. Paul driving him to search the scriptures and to search after those who walked with Jesus, but I would like to make a seperate point and continue the story theme here. For Paul, the story changed, his worldview changed. Before he became a Christian, Paul and his fellow countrymen had the same scriptures as his fellow Jews that were Christians, but drew much different conclusions on what was the hope of Israel and what Israel should be, in light of that controversial figure who was crucified and, as some were saying, rose from the dead. I think experience, tradition, and scripture all come to a head here as people can share the same event, tradition, and scripture, and come to a profound different conclusion from those three. Not sure if I&#039;m making sense or if I have a point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Black Angus</b>, I think you hit on an important point regarding the use of story in scripture. N.T. Wright seems to drive this point many times in his books of the need to look at scripture as that grand narrative that came to a climax in Jesus of Nazareth. Furthermore the narrative is still going on as we&#8217;re obligated to bring New Creation into the present, and I think Rowling and her predecessors have touched on this by using story to convey that &#8220;great story&#8221; that is continuing.</p>
<p><b>revgeorge</b>, you also touched on a crucial point about the experience of St. Paul driving him to search the scriptures and to search after those who walked with Jesus, but I would like to make a seperate point and continue the story theme here. For Paul, the story changed, his worldview changed. Before he became a Christian, Paul and his fellow countrymen had the same scriptures as his fellow Jews that were Christians, but drew much different conclusions on what was the hope of Israel and what Israel should be, in light of that controversial figure who was crucified and, as some were saying, rose from the dead. I think experience, tradition, and scripture all come to a head here as people can share the same event, tradition, and scripture, and come to a profound different conclusion from those three. Not sure if I&#8217;m making sense or if I have a point.</p>
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		<title>By: Black Angus</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/the-quad-on-the-quad-2870/comment-page-1/#comment-450474</link>
		<dc:creator>Black Angus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 02:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehogshead.org/?p=2870#comment-450474</guid>
		<description>Danielle, 
You mentioned that &#039;there are no books quite like the Bible in Harry&#039;s world.&#039;
Well, except for the Bible itself.  The epitaphs Dumbledore put on the gravestones in Godrick&#039;s Hollow show he was very familiar with it, and assumed that others would know what he meant.  Hermione certianly did, even though Harry seemed ignorant of it at the time.  Out of all the books and philosophers, both muggle and wizard, that Dumbledore could have quoted from, he chose the Bible.

I&#039;ve always been fascinated that God chose to reveal himself in Scripture primarily by story.  Even the commands are only given in the context of his relationship with people.  Great narratives spanning thousands of years, all true history, yet rooted in the lives of individuals.
No wonder Rowling, Tolkien, Lewis, etc, etc all chose story as their medium to talk about profound Truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danielle,<br />
You mentioned that &#8216;there are no books quite like the Bible in Harry&#8217;s world.&#8217;<br />
Well, except for the Bible itself.  The epitaphs Dumbledore put on the gravestones in Godrick&#8217;s Hollow show he was very familiar with it, and assumed that others would know what he meant.  Hermione certianly did, even though Harry seemed ignorant of it at the time.  Out of all the books and philosophers, both muggle and wizard, that Dumbledore could have quoted from, he chose the Bible.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always been fascinated that God chose to reveal himself in Scripture primarily by story.  Even the commands are only given in the context of his relationship with people.  Great narratives spanning thousands of years, all true history, yet rooted in the lives of individuals.<br />
No wonder Rowling, Tolkien, Lewis, etc, etc all chose story as their medium to talk about profound Truth.</p>
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		<title>By: revgeorge</title>
		<link>http://thehogshead.org/the-quad-on-the-quad-2870/comment-page-1/#comment-450466</link>
		<dc:creator>revgeorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehogshead.org/?p=2870#comment-450466</guid>
		<description>On St. Paul&#039;s experience, it should be noted that his experience isn&#039;t taken to be normative for anyone else to have the same or similar things happen to them.  Plus, St. Paul didn&#039;t just take his experience &amp; run with it.  Instead, it drove him into the Scriptures &amp; before he was accepted into the fold, so to speak, he made a defense of his experience &amp; the Gospel entrusted to him before the other apostles at Jerusalem.  So, his experience of meeting the risen Christ was confirmed by those who had also walked &amp; talked with the Lord &amp; followed after Him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On St. Paul&#8217;s experience, it should be noted that his experience isn&#8217;t taken to be normative for anyone else to have the same or similar things happen to them.  Plus, St. Paul didn&#8217;t just take his experience &amp; run with it.  Instead, it drove him into the Scriptures &amp; before he was accepted into the fold, so to speak, he made a defense of his experience &amp; the Gospel entrusted to him before the other apostles at Jerusalem.  So, his experience of meeting the risen Christ was confirmed by those who had also walked &amp; talked with the Lord &amp; followed after Him.</p>
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